When To Call Yourself an Agency

00:00.00
Preston Lee
Hello and welcome back to another episode of Freelance to Founder. My name is Preston Lee with millo.co and joining me on the air today is my good friend Clay Mosley from gitdripify.com hey Clay

00:12.76
Clay Mosley
What’s up man how you doing.

00:19.63
Preston Lee
I’m doing good man the the sun is shining and.
I don’t know I’m just good it’s it’s good day what are you up to ah ready to go for it. Got nothing else on the brain just ready to jump into the podcast. We’re joined ah by our new friend Austin who.

00:22.51
Clay Mosley
Ready to podcast man with art with our boy Austin but.

00:35.17
Preston Lee
So flattered he is he is taking time out from his vacation to jump on this call with us today. He’s from Alabama but ah vacationing on the beaches of Florida right now and and literally snuck away up to a hotel room so that he could have this call with us so that that means a lot man. We really welcome you to the show Austin.

00:38.57
Austin
So.

00:50.28
Austin
Yeah, thanks for having me it. It makes my vacation even better joining in on the call. So.

00:57.48
Preston Lee
Well good. We certainly hope so we’ll see by the end of the call how you feel about it if you’d rather be on the beach or chatting with us. But um, let’s let’s start the show off here. You can tell the listeners and tell me and clay a little bit more about your business. What do you do.

01:10.98
Austin
Sure. Yeah, so um, I started a software development freelance company in January I have about 4 years professional software engineering slash development experience working for various companies full time. Still I’m full time just doing the freelance stuff on the side. So um, pretty much I do custom software development for local businesses as of right now. So um, I’ve worked on Crm systems custom Crm Systems Inventory Management software um

01:41.88
Preston Lee
Ah.

01:46.62
Austin
And most recently I I just landed my first what I’d call I Think what you guys call big ticket client where it’s actually a decent amount of money you know more than you would get on fiverr or upwork when you’re just starting out like myself. Um, see yeah, that’s a lot of fun I’m getting.

01:58.33
Preston Lee
Yeah.

02:05.68
Austin
It’s really picking up now. So I thought I’d I feel like a real freelancer now that I have a big client. So I thought I’d sign up for the show and get some more advice on how to keep the business growing.

02:12.58
Preston Lee
Yeah, good man.

02:12.72
Clay Mosley
So what’s a what? what’s a congratulations by the way I’m just curious because I’m not as familiar with software development world. But like what’s a what’s considered a big ticket item in that world.

02:28.31
Austin
So like Pricewise or like project size. Um I guess it depends on how much you’re making before you do freelance so I would say I have a I make a pretty decent living. Yeah I would say at least for me starting off like.

02:28.77
Clay Mosley
Yeah, yeah, yeah, dollar wise.

02:39.97
Clay Mosley
Um, just give me a range.

02:46.30
Austin
5 to 20000 so this is kind of in the middle there I’m able to hire a contractor to help me with it. So it’s not just gonna be on me which is nice. So so.

02:46.71
Clay Mosley
Oh nice, Okay, cool.

02:54.79
Preston Lee
Yeah I mean yeah I mean that’s killer like so time of recording. It’s the very first part of June you said you started in January you know you’re five six months into this thing and and you’re landing a client that’s between 10 $20000 like that’s.

02:55.44
Clay Mosley
Nice I was just curious I didn’t know.

03:10.98
Preston Lee
I Mean that’s no small thing congratulations. That’s that’s awesome. So.

03:12.71
Austin
Yeah, thank you I’ve um I just got done with a few clients off of upwork and it just it wasn’t a good experience for me and I’ve done some free websites wordpress websites. What’s absolutely hated just to try to get the.

03:14.17
Clay Mosley
Just ah.

03:31.14
Austin
Thinking if I could get my foot in the door of them do a free website then maybe that’ll lead into a software project for them. But I quickly found out that people who will take on a free website. Definitely don’t have the money to pay for a big software projects I kind of banded that. But.

03:44.64
Preston Lee
Ah, yeah, yeah, really interesting right? Because as you’re getting started. It’s like well do I just take on everything and sort of build a portfolio am I more selective it sounds like it sounds like you’re going about it right? Sort Of. Maybe doing a few free things here or there or or lower price things to maybe build a portfolio and a reputation. But I love that you’re quickly getting out of that right? You’re quickly saying like how do I get a big ticket Client. You’re probably thinking. This is great. How do I get more of these kinds of big ticket clients so it feels like you’re. Early quite early in the process. You know it’s still a side thing but but you’re definitely heading in the right direction is what it feels like to me. So.

04:18.90
Austin
Yeah. Yeah, I’m definitely trying to slowly grow it I don’t want to quit my full time job in six months type thing. My my goal is by the age of 30 they’ll quit my full time and I’m coming on 28 at the end of the year so I’ve got plenty of time.

04:28.73
Preston Lee
Um, yeah.

04:34.94
Preston Lee
There you go I love that I was I was building my side hustle when I was 28 I had been doing that for I don’t know 11 years already and. Um, told myself I would take it full time when I turned 30 and then I chickened out and then at 30 one I got laid off and took the business full time. So that’s good man. It’s good it’s good it’s good goal

04:54.41
Austin
And.

04:55.74
Clay Mosley
I think I I think I got light off at 31 it was 31 or 32 1 of those 2 yeah.

05:02.90
Preston Lee
Nice So there you go. It’s a good. It’s good time of life. Um I Love what you said too about like feeling like it’s It’s starting to take off you feel like a real freelancer you called in. This is a good place for me to plug for other listeners If you’ve listened to the show.

05:07.93
Austin
And.

05:19.10
Preston Lee
You know Austin said he’s listened like clear back in the catalog almost all of the episodes. Um, you know if if you’ve been listening but not joining us. We need you to come on the show. We can’t do this show format without awesome participants like Austin or like you listening right now. Need you to join the show so that we can chat about your freelance business and other people can learn from your experience as well. So just visit freelance tofounder.com you scroll to the bottom of the page. Super easy. You fill out this little questionnaire and we we have you on the show we chat about your business. We’re going to give Austin the chance to plug his business here in a minute. Um, we’re going to just chat about some of the hurdles. He’s facing. But Austin anything else that we should know or the listeners should know about your business generally speaking like you know you mentioned you work with you work with small businesses as clients is there like a certain niche you work within or um, anything like that anything more we should know contextually right.

06:10.11
Austin
Yeah, that’s definitely one of the things I haven’t really decided on a niche or niche. However, you want to say it. Um you know because the what everyone says the riches are in the niches and so I haven’t really decided on what what I want to do with that. But. Definitely want to find a niece by the end of the year I’d love to but as of right now I’m just kind of doing what most free lynchers do when they start off taking any job they get and just kind of going from there.

06:35.00
Preston Lee
Yup I think the niche thing will come. You’ll find it. We’ve talked about this on the show before right? Clay. It’s like if you try to force it too soon. It doesn’t really work but at some point it’ll.

06:43.23
Clay Mosley
Yep.

06:46.64
Preston Lee
Start to click you’re like oh I really like working with these kinds of clients in this particular industry. They pay me well they are easy to work with and it’ll just start to click. It’ll just take some experimentation so good. Manel let’s chat then about the questionnaire you filled out you you said that you were um, currently. At a one you’d like to be at a 4 so for listeners if you’re not familiar with it if this is by chance you’re first time here first of all welcome thanks for listening and every time we have a guest come on like I mentioned before they fill out this questionnaire and 1 of the questions is on a scale of 1 to 10 one being a freelancer 10 being a founder where would you currently rate yourself and. You put that you’re at a 1 Austin but you’d like to be at a 4 tell us maybe what a 4 looks like if you could project a year from now. What’s what’s ideal scenario for your business.

07:32.26
Austin
Yeah, so um, I put a one I completely beginner started six months ago and we have one what I would say real client. So definitely in 1 in that regard a 4 to me would would look like um like a steady stream of clients it. It. And I’m doing this part time. So I’ve really only got 15 to 20 hours a week to spend on this and I just had a kid about a year ago I know clay you can relate to how how busy that is um, but yeah, and so I don’t have a ton of time to to actually work on it. So um.

07:51.28
Preston Lee
And.

07:57.53
Clay Mosley
Yeah congrats.

07:58.98
Preston Lee
Congratulations.

08:07.41
Austin
Like 1 new client a month would be great for me either that or start to build some recurring revenue which that’s one of the questions I’ll have later whenever we get into like pricing models about a few questions on that but either having a good amount of recurring revenue or. You know 1 or 2 clients every you know one or two months that that would be a ah 4 for me. So.

08:31.51
Preston Lee
Um, love it are um, are you thinking? So so when you’re at a 4 maybe a year from now you’re thinking it’s still a side hustle right? It’s still ah a side business.

08:39.36
Austin
Yeah, it it would have to just completely outperform what I what I could imagine for me to to quit my full time. It’s it. It would take a little time for me to to get up to what I’m currently making and so that’s why and I mentioned earlier I want to slowly grow the business I don’t want to.

08:45.88
Preston Lee
Yeah.

08:58.40
Austin
Just explode and then just lose all momentum and after I quit my job have nothing So definitely gonna take my time with it.

09:03.33
Preston Lee
Yeah, yeah, especially where you’ve got a family that’s relying on you and yeah I think that’s ah, a good way to think about it. Okay, so so maybe what are some of the biggest hurdles that you’re facing then like what’s what’s stopping you from getting to that ideal 4 scenario what you know. What’s what do you foresee standing in your way over the next year and how can we help.

09:25.39
Austin
Sure yeah I would say probably my biggest hurdle is marketing I’m an engineer through and through I’m not creative whatsoever. Um, and so marketing has never been something that’s interested me. At all never looked into it know nothing about it and so this year I’ve been ah you know dabbling here and there with it but not spending a ton of time on it and so now that I’ve I’ve taken on my first big project and I’ve taken on a contractor to help me. He’s got some skills that’ll. Really help with this project skills that I don’t have so that’s great. Um, and so I feel like I’m almost already starting at the the agency model or least trying to and if I can get you know more projects in the future that are as big as this one you know still have contractors underneath me and so. 1 of my biggest questions I have for you guys is should I go ahead and start marketing myself as an agency opposed to a freelancer because my website is currently more so just like hey I’m Austin I’m a freelancer. This is what I’ve done. This is my experience email me that type of thing. Um. And so yeah, yeah, that’s my biggest question should I go ahead and start marketing as an agency or just kind of stick to freelancing until I either get a lot more clients or you know build a better reputation. No.

10:45.82
Preston Lee
Yeah quai. What do you think.

10:49.48
Clay Mosley
Agency. Ah yeah I All let me give you some Contexts I Got to say more words because this is what my wife tells me I got to do um I We just we just.

10:52.90
Austin
I Figured you guys would say that I just wanted some confirmations. Ah.

11:03.46
Austin
Um, feel that.

11:04.97
Clay Mosley
Conversation this morning. Yeah and I she asked a question I gave her like a 1 word answer. She’s like I need more. Ah, our agency. The reason is because a couple of reasons one is um, you are bringing on somebody to help with you with this project right. Whether it’s a contractor or employee doesn’t matter as long if you have somebody helping you um your team your team. So. It’s not like you’re lying to people. Um and also just from a marketing credibility perspective I think I think.

11:30.84
Preston Lee
So yeah.

11:41.48
Clay Mosley
People are more I think you attract much higher level clients If you’re an agency versus a freelancer unless the only exception is if your clients are other agencies.

11:49.67
Austin
Yeah, yeah, ah.

11:59.22
Preston Lee
Yeah, that’s a good point.

11:59.64
Austin
Yeah, yeah I think I’d really like to target local businesses really not like more if not mom and pop shots mom and pop shops can talk but like you know, small to medium sized businesses. Ah I Really like the face to face. You know.

11:59.88
Clay Mosley
That’s the only exception.

12:07.00
Clay Mosley
Um, ah.

12:18.10
Austin
Sealing a deal with a handshake that type stuff. So yeah, so.

12:18.40
Clay Mosley
Um, yeah, then agency is a way to go.

12:21.86
Preston Lee
Yeah, for me, it’s like I think you should market yourself as what you’d like to be over the next year or 2 as opposed to what you currently are not in a dishonest way just just as a like here’s what we can offer instead of instead of. Marketing yourself or advertising here’s what we have offered in the past you ah you market yourself as here’s what we can offer you now and in the future and to me it sounds like now and in the future you’ll be an agency right? You’ve got already got 1 other person you’re subcontracting to hopefully that grows. Ah. Hopefully you can work with more people more clients. So yeah, feels feels to me I’m I’m I agree I think I think agency makes a lot of sense. Um and like clay said it. It’ll attract those bigger clients that you’re looking for.

13:05.85
Clay Mosley
Yeah I will I will say this when I switch from freelancer to agency marketing as far as marketing myself. So my first year as ah as a being self-employed as a freelancer. I made Ninety Nine Thousand $ 100 first first year I was really I don’t know why I was really ticked I know I was like damn yeah, um, which don’t get me wrong I made a good living $99000 like that’s a good living anywhere. Um.

13:27.33
Preston Lee
So close.

13:31.93
Austin
I’m ticked off for you.

13:41.49
Clay Mosley
But the second year I decided to market myself as a free like or as an agency and I jumped up to 300000 in revenue. so yeah yeah so I’m not saying that was the single biggest factor I think it was a.

13:47.76
Austin
Wow Big jump. Yeah.

13:59.19
Clay Mosley
I Think it was ah I think it was a big influence though. So I I’m not I don’t know if that’ll happen to you.

14:02.42
Preston Lee
Yeah I’ve I’ve had similar experience to I’ve had a similar experience where it’s like once you start saying we and like let me connect you with my teammate and it’s just like all those little things they really add up and and what they add up to in my experience is that trust factor.

14:15.36
Clay Mosley
This.

14:19.11
Austin
I.

14:21.10
Preston Lee
Right? And and when the trust factor is up there then you get clients that are a bit more discerning who care about the trust factor and that often comes with then ah the willingness to pay a little bit more or to work with you a longer term um and then obviously that impacts the bottom line of the business.

14:38.69
Austin
Okay, yeah I will definitely start to go down that route a question related to that is since I’m gonna be switching to this agency marketing model I’m gonna have to redo my website and so now that I do have a little a little bit of cash flow coming In. Um I could hire someone to do a website. You know pretty decent website or I could you know just take it on myself with wordpress off a template but I’m not sure if that’s really the best use of my time at this point I don’t know if I could if it’s just better to pay someone in in all that time it would take me to build the website I Could you know. Getting more clients be working on this on projects but my current website. It’s a wordpress site and I had a free website did for someone that was wordpress and I was just even with a template like you still have to have some creative ability and it was just.

15:32.30
Preston Lee
Ah.

15:33.18
Austin
Kind of miserable for me took a lot longer than it should have so I just want to know what your guys thoughts on that would be so.

15:39.00
Preston Lee
So your current website scale of 1 to 10 how much do you like it.

15:46.38
Austin
Ah, for what it is probably like in 8 I bought a pretty nice template I like it.

15:47.98
Preston Lee
Okay, okay, and scale 1 to 10 how well does it tend to convert like if someone visits your website. You know they reach out to you or even become a client or whatever like you feel like it does a decent job on that scale a 1 to 10

16:05.49
Austin
Um, typically I’ll be talking to someone and send them to my website so it’s not like an organic Google search or anything but I’ve had positive response from it like I do have a marketing friend and she really likes the website so that kind of gave me a little bit of confidence boost with it.

16:08.86
Preston Lee
Yeah, yeah.

16:17.84
Preston Lee
Yeah.

16:21.20
Austin
But it would be really hard to convert it to um, kind of like an agency website just because it it’s tailored just to freelancers. Really, it’s got a portfolio section and experience and all this other stuff. So I you want to look enough. Okay, oh no I.

16:32.11
Clay Mosley
Um, what’s the website.

16:32.15
Preston Lee
I I Yeah I think yeah, great question.

16:36.58
Clay Mosley
What is the website.

16:39.91
Austin
It is a M software dot tech that those pretty cool domain. So.

16:43.83
Preston Lee
So so while we’re while we’re pulling that up I’m thinking I mean we we’re gonna look at it here live on the air. This will be fun, but my initial gut from what you’ve told me is like just keep it repurpose it you you.

16:50.43
Austin
So.

16:58.84
Preston Lee
Might have to get a new domain depending on if you change to like an agency name or whatever. But um, like everywhere where it says your name you can just change it to the agency name I mean agencies also want to show off their portfolio and their experience and their services and all all those things right? So I don’t think actually a freelancer’s website is probably that different from. Ah, ah, an agency’s website. Um, it’ll take some adjusting but I would think for the amount of time it would take to start from scratch. It would make more sense I think for your time and and money and whatever to to just use what you’ve got but we’re looking at it now live right? You got it. Clay.

17:36.10
Clay Mosley
Um, they’re gonna look it up. They’re gonna they’re gonna look this shit up while they’re listening man.

17:36.15
Preston Lee
What do you think man? Well they’re going to see they’re going to go to am software dot tech and follow along. Yeah.

17:36.55
Austin
I’m just glad the viewers can’t see it I’m nervous. Oh no edit it out. Edit it out now. Now everyone go look at the website please.

17:48.83
Clay Mosley
Are you changing your name.

17:51.53
Austin
I What do you guys? think about the name I like I mean it’s my initials but it doesn’t have like that personal name brand like a M software. What do you guys? think.

18:00.76
Clay Mosley
Yeah, it’s totally fine I mean the the yeah I was going to say all you have to do is just is just change the words and say instead of hi I’m Austin Markham you could I mean honestly you can keep that there.

18:12.25
Preston Lee
Ah, yeah.

18:19.87
Clay Mosley
But you can say instead of what I do you say what we do and and just do that like that would take you no time to do. Um, yeah, it’s good enough for now you’re going to want to revamp this later.

18:36.28
Austin
Yeah, yeah, and and they have some with the template. There’s some like testimonials and like many portfolio sections So that’s something I’ve been meaning to add to for sure. So I like doubt up a lot.

18:38.32
Clay Mosley
But it’s good enough for now.

18:50.19
Clay Mosley
You’re gonna want to get these anchor links fixed though you want you’re gonna need. You’re gonna need to get these anchor Anchor links fixed portfolio and resume. Ah when I clicked on the nav menu and.

18:53.98
Austin
What’s wrong.

18:59.94
Austin
Oh that doesn’t look right I haven’t looked at the site in a while to be honest.

19:06.87
Clay Mosley
Those 2 links don’t go anywhere.

19:07.97
Austin
Oh no.

19:28.36
Austin
Oh yeah.

19:38.25
Clay Mosley
And.

20:19.73
Clay Mosley
Yep.

20:24.14
Austin
Okay, yeah I like to just make it work until you know it’s useful to do in the future and um, okay well I guess we can move on to I guess more marketing slash lead generation probably where most of my questions are. So I.

20:43.41
Clay Mosley
I hate marketing. But yeah, let’s do it I mean that is my tagline. Ah.

20:51.25
Austin
I do I will say 1 thing like I love the website I love the you know skip the shenanigans and all the little. Yeah, the little quips here and there I like it. Yeah um so.

20:56.87
Clay Mosley
Ah, yeah, that’s just my per that’s my personality coming out I appreciate that.

21:07.50
Austin
So marketings lastly slash lead generation I have a few ideas. Um and like you said earlier I’ve listened to a ton of the podcasts and so none of these questions are going to be new. It’s kind of the same stuff most freelancers they’re starting off struggle with so um, some of the strategies I’ve seen are. Blog posts obviously kind of boosting Seo um lead magnets like creating some some free stuff for people to download get their email address all that stuff. Um like Facebook ads or just or Google ads stuff like that. But what do you think at this point. Would be the best strategy to start like I’m also down to do a marketing class as well. Like I mentioned earlier I know nothing about marketing. So but that could be beneficial but what’s the best use of my time at this point. Do you guys think or in-person networking events I’ve I’ve had. Ah, little success with that. But I feel like I was just targeting the wrong people and I gave them quotes and they’re like whoa. It’s a lot more than I thought sure.

22:10.11
Clay Mosley
Can I ask you a question real quick. Ah what kind of software they like what? what’s a typical product that they buy just to give me context of yeah.

22:17.54
Austin
Okay, yeah, that’s I can kind of explain what the project I’m working on. Yeah, what I’m doing Now. So It’s the project I’m working on now is for a local shooting Target manufacturer so they print out all the targets and sell them to shooting ranges all across the Us. Um, and so they for all of their print jobs. They keep track of it would buy these paper forms and have to like organize it for schedule the different batches and make sure them They’re correct order and keep track of all this stuff and everything that goes along with that. And so what I’m doing is I’m coming in and creating an application that they can run on a computer in it. They’ll be able to enter in all the information that they mom would on the form able to track. Um.

23:11.62
Austin
Yeah, so it’s we’ll call it a desktop app. There’s where we’re kind of doing ah a weird strategy but I won’t get to the the technicalacle aspects of yeah, it’ll be something that.

23:25.74
Clay Mosley
Ah, have.

23:28.40
Austin
Applications.

23:28.87
Clay Mosley
The.

23:35.72
Austin
No, so we’ll call this a web app. It’s what it really is but we’re gonna kind of make it into a desktop app almost like a Pw a query listener. Oh yeah, that’s where all my experiences everything in the cloud. Um.

23:45.62
Clay Mosley
But what kind of web app.

23:52.00
Austin
So most of the experience I have so far is just creating like I wouldn’t even know how to explain it kind of like internal tools for companies. So not really like customer facing applications. But um.

23:55.95
Clay Mosley
Okay. First of all, you got to learn how to explain this to people like straight I’m not even joking I mean it’s funny but I’m not joking you got to learn how to explain this this shit to people in very layman’s terms in about 30 seconds

24:15.17
Austin
Oh.

24:20.10
Clay Mosley
Um, yeah.

24:36.41
Clay Mosley
Ah.

24:37.68
Austin
Yeah, yeah, so web apps are definitely the route I Want to go for sure. It’s where I guess said all my experiences at and it’s um, yeah, all my skills are there So it’s at this point it’s just who do I market to what’s my target audience all of that and.

24:54.78
Austin
Yes, yeah, that that’s the majority of the one I’m doing so like right now I’m well I won’t get to the technical details of it but but but I’m.

25:17.12
Austin
Yeah, or even yeah have a plug up a barcode scanner and do it that way as well. I’ve done something similar to that. Actually so yeah and that’s I did find trouble with this explaining what I do to people because like I said I’ve never really worked on any customer facing.

25:25.69
Clay Mosley
Um, would would would retail.

25:36.66
Austin
Um, Applications Besides the freelance stuff I’m doing now and so when people ask like what are you working on at work I’m like ah it’s hard to explain. It’s like internal tooling and ah web apps and then so many people don’t even know what it one after is either.

26:22.46
Austin
Okay, yeah I like that. Um actually I Really like that a lot I was actually considering after I took on this client. You know, maybe there are other companies that could benefit from kind of like some software that would like digitize their forms be able to track all that stuff online opposed to keeping track of. You know paper and and all the stuff that goes along with that. So yeah.

26:50.59
Clay Mosley
So um I mostly wanted to find I mean I initially started by trying to find clarity as far as like who you sell to but it it unveiled the fact that you need to work on your thirty second pitch

27:02.20
Austin
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

27:15.32
Austin
It’s called clarity Matters I’ve actually listened to that one quite a few times. Ah as you guys can tell I’m a bit of a a fan of the podcast. So.

27:20.20
Clay Mosley
Yeah, yeah, already knows. Ah.

27:30.70
Austin
And.

27:58.85
Austin
I.

28:27.10
Austin
Um.

28:36.54
Austin
Yeah, yeah.

28:52.73
Austin
Um, I’ve really considered creating a blog to be honest just to I’m not sure if it would help me figure out how to niche down or maybe some type of lead Magnet. So It’s ever since I took on this this new client I’m gonna refer to him a lot.. It’s my only client. So. So I figure tired of me talking about it. Um, but yeah, like like I can mention like it’s pretty much just digitizing their paper forms and creating a better way to keep track of all that and so I was thinking maybe I you know create a blog post about that and all the benefits that um you know that that could have for local businesses or. You know businesses in general and then focus on Seo try to get that out there. You know use tools like a what is it a tref um and actually I I use Cha Gtp quite a lot I actually have a whole lead magnet already created from that I’m considering doing that as Well. But.

29:36.39
Clay Mosley
Ah.

29:43.29
Clay Mosley
Nice.

29:47.33
Austin
I know nothing about Seo and I know wordpress has a ton of tools for that. But I just didn up if that was like the best use of my time or if I should really target the local networking events because I guess I’ve I’ve had people interested but they just didn’t know enough about what custom software could. Do for them and then when when I found a problem and after talking with the problem that they had and oh I have the solution bubble and they’re like oh I didn’t know it cost that much and in my head I’m like I’m really not asking for that much I don’t think so um.

30:20.90
Clay Mosley
Ah.

30:49.94
Austin
Yeah I mean this guy is super cool guy like amazing I’ll be actually it’s yeah it was a word of mouth referral. So I kept um you know when you started the business. You want to.

30:56.30
Clay Mosley
Ah.

31:04.59
Austin
Share on Facebook and all your social media hey I’m starting a business if you know of anyone that would benefit from these services that I offer reach out to me and so I kept making Facebook posts then with each post I would kind of ah clarify a little bit more and a little bit more but it sounds like I still need to work on that and then all of a sudden. 1 of my friends I went to high school with reached out to me said hey I think we could benefit from the stuff you offered and are that you offer and I I went in. We talked about you know their problem I said yeah I can definitely do this so about a week later we closed the deal and hired a contractor and.

31:39.24
Clay Mosley
And cop.

31:41.18
Austin
I’m Excited. It’s Fun. So yeah, word of mouth and that’s it’s you guys talk about a lot. Everyone who comes on. It’s It’s great, but it’s extremely Unpredictable. So I don’t know if I know. Ah, like creating social media pages for this would not be the wisest.. That’s why I didn’t even bring that up I feel like um, that just wouldn’t be beneficial for who I’m trying to target at least that’s my perspective I know press and you.

32:09.65
Clay Mosley
Where hang on hang on hand So you so you so you you think the social media pages wouldn’t be beneficial but it sounds like you got this client because of social media.

32:12.97
Austin
Have a different perspective on that. So.

32:25.82
Austin
Yeah, yeah, just sharing with my network of friends. But I guess I’m more so talking about like creating a social media page specifically for the company and and maybe that would help if I had better target audience. Maybe.

32:30.63
Clay Mosley
Ah.

32:34.69
Clay Mosley
Okay.

32:43.41
Clay Mosley
What why? Why do you? Why do you think I’m just curious of your line of thinking here. Why do you think? social media not creating social media pages or sorry.

32:44.63
Austin
And I’ve I’ve tried Facebook groups and I just haven’t had any success there. But.

32:58.83
Clay Mosley
Why do you think? social media would not be beneficial for your business.

33:05.50
Austin
I Think it’s just because I don’t know my target audience so I wouldn’t know how to form posts and like I said ah trying of taking a shotgun approach at this point and maybe that would help a social media page I I wouldn’t I really wouldn’t know but I just.

33:11.77
Clay Mosley
Um.

33:21.53
Austin
Maybe I’m just totally wrong about that and I should give it a go. So.

33:21.87
Clay Mosley
So So your messaging affects all marketing platforms. Not just social media. So Even if you were to just even if you were to if we were talking about traditional stuff Tv radio. Magazines that kind of stuff your messaging would affect those 2 So. It’s not.. It’s not the social.. It’s not the fact that social media It’s like if what you’re saying is I don’t know my messaging or my audience like that’s that’s going to affect no matter what. Marketing strategy. Yeah.

34:02.00
Austin
Ah, okay.

34:07.86
Clay Mosley
Um, yeah, you have to yeah you have to think about every single marketing platform out there or or meet I should say medium. Um, they’re all the same.

34:09.38
Austin
Okay, yeah I guess I Never really thought about that. Yeah.

34:24.87
Clay Mosley
As far as the fact that that’s just a channel of how you get your message out there even if it’s even if it’s in-person networking I mean the difference is is you are a singular person who can talk to a single person at any given time but it’s still the same Way. It’s like you you are. Talking to a person about what you do? Social media is the same as far as like getting your message out there. So yeah, your messaging and your target audiences. You know that that that can affect anything any any medium.

35:26.54
Austin
Um.

35:40.89
Clay Mosley
The.

37:30.39
Austin
I’m thinking’s probably gonna take some work outside the podcast but um, after I started working with this client. Yeah I’m thinking maybe I target local manufacturers you know I feel like there people are still moving to the digital age and I feel like possibly there could be. Um, other companies that struggle with the same problems that this one is with you know, still keeping up with paper forms. So maybe that’s something I try to look into see if he knows anyone any other manufacturers or you know just do a Google search local manufacturers in the area something like that. So.

38:05.95
Austin
And I guess I didn’t mention this earlier. Um I I And originally when I first started I wanted to niche down immediately and so um I tried to go to to the the gym business like local gyms I’ve.

38:25.40
Austin
My wife may get mad that I’m gonna say this but years ago many years ago I dated. Ah a girl who whose parents owns gyms and so I was around gyms a whole lot in high school worked all the time worked at a gym worked out all through all through college and so I was. You know I’m my head and like okay that’s one industry that I I’d say I know pretty well and so started calling up local gyms and said hey you know maybe I could develop a mobile app for you and can do this this and this you know look at Planet Fitness is app that it does all this stuff and this could be a way for you to compete with them. You know because they’re coming in and you know taking a whole bunch of. Potential customers for those gyms and everyone I reached out to it’s I don’t know if they just couldn’t afford it or weren’t interested but or they just weren’t big enough gyms where benefit them and so I kind of just said oh that’s a bust you know I’m gonna just move to more general. A more general audience and.

39:18.67
Clay Mosley
So let me let me tell you who sorry I don’t mean it interrupt but let me tell you what I would do if I were you if I were sitting in your shoes I would focus both on long term and short term strategies.

39:19.92
Austin
And so no, go ahead. Okay.

39:36.20
Clay Mosley
So What I mean by long term I mean blogging um social media content things like that and and just so like when it comes to blogging social media like the long term Stuff. You can’t so yeah and just. Few minutes ago. You’re like I don’t know if I should focus on this or that like should I focus on blogging should I focus on in-person networking. The fact is you got to you got to think about you have to always be doing things that are both short short-term and long term. So if and this is where a lot of people make mistake is they. They focus on one or the other and the short-term stuff is great because it brings in the bucks right now. But it’s It’s very like Transactional. You got to start over every single month kind of thing. It’s It’s very exhausting and and.

40:25.48
Austin
Yeah.

40:30.30
Clay Mosley
And then other people focus only on long term and then they get burnt out because the money’s not coming in. Um, but it’ll come in in a year or two later right? So I would do you need to focus. You need to do a little bit of both so social media blogging. Yes.

40:37.99
Austin
Um, yeah, are.

40:48.59
Clay Mosley
As far as stuff you need to post just post the just post the shit that you’re doing like hey here’s here almost like a case study hey here’s how I helped this manufacturer ah collect all this data and now they’re doing all XY and z here’s the result. Um, yeah.

41:01.58
Austin
Yeah, it’s funny. You say that I actually created a post earlier today doing that exact thing so on Linkedin sounds like a need shared on Facebook too. Yeah, yeah.

41:09.96
Clay Mosley
But don’t go don’t get too technical with it because you got to think about your audience right? Don’t get into the technical stuff just tough. Yeah, cause I Also see that mistake too especially with Web developers. Um, they their audience is small business owners but then they’ll blog about technical shit that only web developers would understand I’m like why the hell are you doing that like it makes 0 sense. Um.

41:40.34
Austin
Yes, yeah.

41:45.32
Clay Mosley
So do long term short term um is just it’s sales straight up sales. It’s not marketing its sales This is going to like this is basically establishing relationships and shaking a bunch of hands Now you’ve mentioned multiple times local.

42:03.76
Clay Mosley
I Would actually say ah as much as I’m a fan of local and and try it. You can do the local stuff if like see how that goes but I would also try things like ah go to places where.

42:22.56
Clay Mosley
Your audience would hang out. So here’s what I mean by this and it’s not local I mean go to conferences events things like that actually travel to these places and go to industry events that is not your industry So here’s here’s the.

42:28.19
Austin
And.

42:42.17
Clay Mosley
Where I see a lot of people do this, they they go and they they travel to these conferences. Do you go to conferences you have it? Okay, what what type of events are were they.

42:50.50
Austin
No I I have I’ve been to some some events but I wouldn’t say conferences. Um, it see it’s like two years ago I went to like a small technical conference. It’s a whole bunch of developers. Nothing.

43:03.37
Clay Mosley
Okay, yeah, okay so you got to think about the purpose of the event that you’re going for right? If you’re going to learn that’s fine. Go to go to a technical event. But if you’re going to try to get business. You go to.

43:07.27
Austin
Nothing like what you’re talking about.

43:20.95
Clay Mosley
Ah, Manufacturers conference and here’s why this works is because if you go to or or if you go to a conference with a bunch of gym owners. Um, the reason why this works is because now you are the only developer and that entire.

43:39.10
Austin
Like that.

43:40.13
Clay Mosley
Group because I did this I have I have a shit ton of chiropractors as clients. That’s because I went to chiropractic conferences and I was the only web developer that they knew because I went to these conferences. And so that’s how you stand out in a very busy world of marketing and sales.

44:05.68
Austin
Did you wear your your developer shirt to that I love that marketing strategy.

44:11.20
Clay Mosley
Initially yeah I did yeah like I thank Preston for that.

47:35.10
Austin
Yeah I really like that idea kind of ah, keep going on what you’re talking about with the subscription model. The great thing about web apps is you know it costs a lot more to host a web app than it does for a website and so. Already has monthly associated fees. You know, dependent on the amount of users amount of data storing blah blah the technical stuff. You know it can cost like a minimum of you know, close to one hundred bucks just for that and so then I would probably tack on like a management fee few hundred bucks you know let’s say five hundred ah a month to use this. Service like like you’re talking about really like that. So.

48:09.78
Clay Mosley
Ah.

48:47.86
Austin
Yeah I Really like that. Yeah initially I was trying to you know it’s really Beneficial. You guys talk about it in a lot of people online as well talking about productizing your services and so it’s originally was really hard for me to try to productize just building a you know X app for someone when. Each app for different clients are going to be different but you know if I kind of went with the model you’re talking about kind of some reusable software then I could easily productize that you know have 3 different packages and you know go into the details with that. But I like that idea if find a problem that businesses are running into. Solve that and tell it to you know, tell it to all of them but tweak it for each one I elect up.

49:30.83
Clay Mosley
I Mean that’s what that’s what I don’t I mean I would say that’s what a lot the big software companies. Do yeah.

49:40.17
Austin
Yeah, and so.

49:55.70
Austin
Yeah, when I was looking into doing the gym apps I Noticed you know you’re supposed to look up your competition not that I was any competition to them. But um, yeah I looked it up and there’s so many companies that do that they’ll sell almost the same app to everyone. But you know put your logo on it tweak. It. You know, add these features take these away and so I thought that was hey that’s a really good idea if I could do that and then I just never gained any traction with that. So kind of gave up on it. But.

50:58.60
Austin
Yeah I like that I’ll definitely ask the decline I have now see if he knows any other manufacturers see if they struggle with you know the same problem he does or similar ones. So definitely good. Starting point for that I like that.

50:59.84
Clay Mosley
Um, that has.

51:27.81
Austin
Ah I think you answered most of them. Um, even without me asking them. So let let me check. Yeah I’ve got a list ah to to to do I Think that’s it I think you solved most of my questions.

51:30.78
Clay Mosley
And so.

51:43.27
Austin
Um, got a lot of work to do and.

51:45.96
Clay Mosley
Her.

51:57.88
Austin
Yeah, probably the best way is to go to my website at wwwww.amsoftwaredot tech or check me out on Linkedin Austin Markham I’m pretty active on there. So yeah, there’s. Probably the two best places to reach out to me or email me at Austin Dot Markham at a msoftwaredot tech.

52:21.43
Clay Mosley
Cool cool.

52:29.97
Austin
Yeah, thank you guys.

52:31.67
Clay Mosley
Thanks see ya.