When growing, many founders default to hiring a VA (virtual assistant) before anyone else in order to offload administrative tasks.
But in this episode, we explore whether a VA is actually the right first hire to take you from freelancer to founder.
Here are some key takeaways from our conversation with Nils:
Key Takeaways from this Episode:
- Don’t default to a VA. Consider what tasks are biggest time sucks first.
- Outsource revenue-driving activities before purely operational ones. Video editors, designers and copywriters directly enable growth.
- Take it slow. Give new hires like a VA time to align and work out kinks before expanding team further.
- Manage expectations on taking more clients with your first hire. Maintain quality without overpromising.
Should I Hire a VA First?
This episode, we have a coaching call with Nils, founder of a social media management agency. He currently handles everything in-house from content creation to strategy.
But Nils has big dreams for the coming year, hoping to scale from solopreneur to founder managing a full team. His goal is to transition to more of a client liaison and oversight role.
To get there, Nils knows he needs to start delegating tasks. But his dilemma is common: where do you begin?
Like many founders, Nils assumes hiring a VA or virtual assistant for administrative work is the obvious first move. But we challenge that notion and offer a different perspective.
Rethinking the Default VA Hire
When Nils asks about finding his first VA, Clay pushes back. He first wants to understand Nils’ service offerings and current workload.
Nils confirms he handles everything solo right now from copywriting to design to video production and editing. He admits the video work consumes a massive 70%+ of his time.
With that context, Clay suggests Nils’ first hire should be a video editor, not a VA.
Why? Because it tackles Nils’ biggest time suck that prevents him from doing sales and growth work. He explains:
“A VA is going to be operational and efficiency. It’s not going to be profit.”
Whereas a video editor directly enables Nils to take on more client work and revenue. They caution against assuming a VA is automatically the right first team member.
When we look for our first hire, it’s easy to default to low-level administrative tasks we want to offload. But an effective first hire should free up time for priority work only we can do, like sales.
An VA/admin may only relieve 10% of your workload. But a video editor could free up 50-70% for Nils. That time is precious for founders in the early days.
Here’s why we don’t actually recommend hiring a VA as your very first team member:
1. VAs don’t directly generate revenue.
The main benefit of a VA is taking administrative or operational tasks off your plate. This frees up time for you to do more important work. However, those operational tasks aren’t directly billable to clients. So while a VA improves efficiency, they don’t actually contribute to the services generating revenue.
2. VAs only free up a small percentage of your time.
Nils estimated that administrative tasks take up about 20% of his workload. While not insignificant, it’s still the smaller portion of his time spent. We advised bringing on team members who can take over the other 80% of client work first. For example, creative work like video editing and copywriting.
3. Management skills take time to develop.
Managing others doesn’t come naturally, especially when you’re used to working solo. Bringing on a VA as your very first hire means rapidly developing management abilities. We suggested Nils start by outsourcing discrete projects to get comfortable delegating.
4. Early hires should accelerate growth.
When your business is still young, your first hires should significantly move the needle on growth. For Nils, someone who can take over client work will enable him to get more clients. A VA’s workflow help is useful, but further down the line.
5. Customer service should stay in-house.
Early on, it’s risky to outsource core customer-facing functions like account management and quality control. Until you cement processes, it’s best to keep service interactions in-house. VAs can take over those roles once workflows are proven.
And that’s it. From our conversation with Nils, we realized it might just be better to hire billable roles like designers, writers and editors first when scaling your freelance business. Bring on administrative help once you have a solid foundation in place, rather than making it your very first hire.
Reprioritizing the First Hire
In fact, let’s take this principle a bit further – the first hire should directly drive revenue.
Outsourcing administrative work like invoicing doesn’t directly earn money. It only creates bandwidth for you to do revenue-generating work in the freed-up time.
But hiring a designer, copywriter or other creative role both accelerates revenue AND saves you time. Double win.
So before defaulting to a VA or admin, critically evaluate your workflow. What tasks currently drive your income, and which are getting in the way? Then outsource the obstacles first.
Cautious Scaling After the First Hire
Clay shares a mistake he made that’s instructive for Nils. Eager to grow quickly after hiring an in-house video editor, Clay immediately took on 10 new client projects.
But the new editor didn’t work out, leaving Clay overwhelmed. He took on months of sleepless nights and brutal hours to deliver for the new clients.
His advice? Resist the urge to rapidly scale just because you make your first hire. Ensure you have the right person, processes and communication rhythm first before expanding client work.
He suggests giving new hires like a VA a proper trial period first, not assuming all will go smoothly. Being selective protects quality and sanity.
Treading slowly also gives you time to adjust to management skills, which likely differ from your current creative or sales abilities.
Rome wasn’t built in a day, and neither is a smoothly operating freelance team. But with the right first hire and measured scaling, you’ll get there.
With the right first hire and steady scaling pace, you can transition smoothly from freelancer to leader of a high-performing team. Simply take it one step at a time.
Exceptions to the rule?
However, there may be at least two situations where we’d advise starting with a VA:
- If administrative tasks currently take up 50%+ of your time, significantly impeding billable work.
—or— - If you have funding to hire a VA plus billable roles simultaneously.
Aside from those exceptions, hold off on the VA as employee #1. Add roles that directly contribute to service delivery first. Then down the line, hire a VA to maximize efficiency of your now-larger team.
Episode Transcript
This transcript was auto-generated and may have grammatical errors.
00:00.00
Preston Lee
Hello and welcome back to another episode of freelance to founder. My name is Preston Lee with millo.co and joining me on the air today as always is my good friend Clay Mosley from getdripify.com hey Clay
00:16.90
Clay
What’s going on man. Ah yeah, you see that? Ah yeah, that that was just today just today that was a that was a long battle.
00:17.68
Preston Lee
The newly registered copyrighted dripify might I add. Yeah I did see that Wow see look how look how tight we are? Um, so do you own the word dripify now.
00:35.23
Clay
I do in in the US I own the word tripify there isnt there’s only one other and they are. They’re actually out of Europe somewhere. Um, but in the United States
00:36.36
Preston Lee
Because there’s other companies like yeah wow.
00:45.90
Preston Lee
Okay.
00:51.63
Clay
I Own the word trippify. Ah.
00:51.75
Preston Lee
Very cool. Maybe we at some point maybe in a q and a episode or something we’ll get into why you decided to do that if listeners if you’re particularly interested in why clay decided to go through what sounds like was a pretty long somewhat difficult journey of of actually getting. Ah, red. What is a registered trademark is that what it’s called. Yeah, so if you’re interested in learning more about that and submit a question freelance to founder.com/ ask or any question really that’s where we ah we get our q and a episode questions from we’ll do our best to answer in fifteen nish minutes
01:10.25
Clay
Register Yep Federal registered Trademark. Yep.
01:29.86
Preston Lee
Anyway, that’s not what we have today today we have a full-length coaching call and we’re joined by our new friend Nils also calling from Germany we had a caller last week from Germany this is 2 in a row niils welcome to the show. We’re very excited to have you thanks so much for calling in. We really appreciate it.
01:39.11
Nils
Um, hello Thank you for having me.
01:47.82
Preston Lee
But don’t you tell us and the listeners a little bit more about your business.
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00:00.00
Preston Lee
Okay, so longtime listeners you will know that every time we have someone join us on the show like Nils is joining us which by the way we would love to have you join us, you just visit freelance to founder dot com and you scroll all the way to the bottom of the page There’s a little questionnaire and a link to get on our calendar. We’d love to talk about your business and help you overcome. Some of the hurdles that you’re facing but niils did that you filled out this questionnaire and Nils you said that you’re currently on a scale of 1 to 10 one being a freelancer 10 being a founder you said I’m currently at a 2 but I want to be in the next year I want to be more like an 8 to big leap. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about if you could project. 1 year from now. What do you want your business to look like.
00:42.93
NilsÂ
Um, so I want to have ah got some help probably if like ah v a and had me with ah doing the science doing writing the texts and maybe some someone who does ah a little bit of um. Video editing. Um, so and the future that I just have a supervising role getting new clients and everything else will be ah um, done by my team. So maybe 1 manager and 1 texting guy 1 um 1 creator and maybe one someone who does more like.
01:11.30
Preston Lee
Yes, um.
01:19.53
Preston Lee
Okay, okay, and so do you see yourself being like the client liaison working with the clients not necessarily doing the creative work as much.
01:20.13
NilsÂ
Editing and stuff.
01:20.89
Clay
Nice.
01:30.88
NilsÂ
Yes, I Really like um, ah selling. So um as I started my business I just went from store to store and tried to pitch my my my agency or my my my freelancing because it was fun to me I didn’t really need that much clients but just like the.
01:35.48
Preston Lee
Um, ah.
01:48.96
NilsÂ
Ah, selling part So this would be the the dream outcome.
01:50.52
Preston Lee
Yeah, oh man, there’s just something like ah I don’t know when you like sales you just like sales I had my son was in a play in his junior high and they needed sponsors and I I literally like took the day off work.
02:00.14
Clay
Ah.
02:07.59
Preston Lee
And just went around knocking on local businesses asking him them to sponsor my son’s play. It was so much fun I got this rush out of it man. Um, when someone finally says yes, but.
02:10.43
NilsÂ
Ah, this.
02:11.20
Clay
Ah, how funny I could see you do you know what? I imagine sales are a lot easier whenever you’re pimping your own kid out. Ah.
02:19.70
NilsÂ
Ah.
02:23.38
Preston Lee
Well yeah, it’s a little bit easier when it’s like that local junior high you know, but still like it was fun. It was It was a good time anyway.
02:30.23
Clay
Ah, yeah.
02:33.42
Preston Lee
Anyway, Nils why don’t you why don’t you tell us? Okay, so that’s a good picture of what you’re hoping those are some lofty aspirations for the next year tell us what’s standing in your way. How can we help.
02:41.50
NilsÂ
So The the biggest problem is how do I find the right way I never did write out some sort of and chop offer for someone I don’t I but because I listened to episodes I maybe thought. About Upwork or something and to get my first V a um but it’s you You always think that you do the best work and nobody does it best than you So I don’t know what what parts of my work. You can put push to the site and let how do it transfer some of my business to my. Assistant. So.
03:18.83
Clay
And.
03:19.93
Preston Lee
Yeah, so the the question’s really 2 parts first. What I’m hearing is how do I find a good v or virtual assistant. Um, how do I find the right person to start helping me with some of these tasks in my business second part of the question is when I do find someone. How do I give them tasks in a way that they can succeed and and even though they may not be as invested in the business as I am they can still want the business to succeed is that fair. Okay Clay. Do you have any suggestions on finding like hiring. Ah maybe not even a v just just where do you.
03:44.19
NilsÂ
This 100 correct
03:55.69
Preston Lee
Look when you when it’s like okay, it’s time to hire. It’s time to add to the team. Where do you start looking? okay.
03:59.40
Clay
Um, ah I saw I just need I want to take a step back for a second and ask what specifically you offer with social media.
04:10.32
NilsÂ
Um, so I Um I do the at the moment I’m doing everything from creating the designs making me this strategy Sometimes I’m even in a front of the camera and doing the um so the visual content myself. So ah. Yes, Ah, at the moment I do everything from strategy to ah planning the content to ah making it bias to content creation on all problems. Yes, Ah yes.
04:35.45
Clay
On all platforms all social networks so you do do you do all the video editing you do all that by yourself right now. Um all right? so.
04:44.15
NilsÂ
Yes I don’t get much sleep at the moment.
04:52.10
Clay
The first thing that I would look at looking to delegate or outsource in your case is going to be video editing. Yeah I bet you that takes up 80 to 90% of your time.
05:00.30
NilsÂ
Yeah, that takes a lot of a lot of time. Yeah, yeah, you’re right about that.
05:10.80
Clay
Yeah, that would be the very first thing there’s tons of video editors out there. Um, the only thing I mean there’s good ones. There’s bad ones. There’s there’s inexpensive ones. There’s expensive ones and I think I think you just need to try. Ah, few of them because the first one you hires is probably not going to be to your liking if. You do you got lucky? Um, so I would just try. Like whenever you whenever you find someone to to contract out I would do a trial basis and just be like hey here are like 3 videos and edit these I ah and pay that person right? Um, as like a trial run instead of saying.
05:59.13
Preston Lee
So yeah.
06:04.54
Clay
Hey I’m going to hire you on like monthly or whatever right? So I would I would try a handful of editors to on a trial basis and then see who’s the best and also fits your budget.
06:16.83
Preston Lee
That’s actually why I really like fiverr. Ah I know Fiverr has a bad reputation in some circles. But for those kinds of positions I found. It’s really good particularly like.
06:21.17
Clay
A.
06:29.50
Preston Lee
You just give them a few to to try out right? and then you can work out like a monthly something or other but but like it’s very. It’s very clear on fiverr that there’s not a long-term commitment. It’s just like here’s this one project very project based here’s this one project I need help with I Also want to say I think.
06:33.00
Clay
Yeah.
06:47.42
Preston Lee
I Love the way you’re thinking about this clay and and you kind of glossed over how you actually got there but he’s saying I want to hire a Va, you’re saying actually let’s consider of everything you do what takes up the most time because everything is an opportunity cost in your business and so. If you’re spending 90% of your time or whatever the number is doing video editing that’s time you’re not able to spend selling and finding new clients and so how do you offload that as quickly as possible while you hire a video editor and then that frees up all that video editing time for you to do more selling. So.
07:06.30
Clay
A.
07:21.56
NilsÂ
That’s ah, that’s a good point because it’s really, it’s like 70% of the day. The stuff I do is video editing.
07:27.64
Clay
Yeah, it’s going to be tough too I will tell you that it’s going to be tough to because a lot of people The very first thing they say is I Want to hire Va to do like some administrative things or whatever.
07:40.58
Preston Lee
Up. Yeah.
07:43.43
Clay
And that’s a really easy low hanging fruit solution because it’s usually the most the the least expensive thing for you to pay for you know I mean like it’s for a reason it’s yeah, you eventually want to.
07:52.59
NilsÂ
His.
07:52.82
Preston Lee
M.
08:02.49
Clay
Delegates that stuff but like you’re going to be stuck in a very similar situation. You are now except now you’re paying a V a you know, like as an extra expense and you freed up very very little time.
08:13.31
Preston Lee
Yeah, like what what you’re saying Clay is like quite often. A v a doesn’t actually make you money right.
08:18.68
Clay
Oh correct. Yeah V A is going to be operational and and and efficiency. It’s not going to be profit.
08:24.48
Preston Lee
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and so it might be smarter to Hire. For example, a video editor is going to make you money. Not only are they going to make you money by completing client projects which you can bill for but they’ll also free up time. Lots of time. Where a Vm might free up 10% of your time. A video editor would free Up. You know, 50 60 70% of your time Nils and and um and all that time can be baked into your sales process can be reinvested when you’re when you’re so early when you’re so young in your business. Time and money are very equal in value right? And so anytime you can anytime you can free up your time Nils to grow your business. That’s a good investment.
09:09.38
Clay
It is.
09:10.99
NilsÂ
Is yes I think that’s ah, a good point and it would be ah ah like a easy first step to delegate some tasks ah outside of ah and my my prospect of work. It would be ah easy first step to me to take to task. Just ah, take a video editing and give it another person to help me with.
09:36.10
Clay
Yeah, and let me let me say this though. Let’s just assume you find a good editor. Um, be careful about taking on new clients too quickly because you think you can now.
09:50.35
NilsÂ
Um, okay.
09:51.59
Clay
I know I this is like I mean that yes, that’s the reason why right? because you want to take on more clients and stuff but like and I’m telling you this from experience I learned the very very hard way his i. I didn’t have I didn’t I didn’t hire a contractor like ah ah to outsource I hired somebody on my team to do video editing and stuff and so I thought great I can take on 10 new clients. So guess what I did I went and took on 10 New Clients in the first month of having this video editor. Well. Guess what happened video editor didn’t work out and now I have 10 new clients with no video editor and then my my work suffered because I had to all of a sudden increase my hours to 100 hours a week just to keep up and I got no sleep and.
10:34.16
NilsÂ
Okay.
10:47.40
Clay
Yeah, the the quality of the work just went down downhill. So.
10:47.88
Preston Lee
Yeah in in startup world. They call this nail it then scale it right? You have to get it right? You have to get the process right? before you go scaling and the scaling is then finding all of these new clients. So you have to figure out how it’s going to work and make sure that it works. Well.
11:03.29
Clay
Yeah.
11:07.18
Preston Lee
Meaning you have the right person they know how to do the job they can do it fairly quickly. They can meet deadlines all of those kinds of questions you got to get that right first if you start to scale before that’s right then? yeah you end up in in this position that clays in or was in I should say.
11:21.45
NilsÂ
Okay, that’s ah, that’s a ah good point. Um, and if I find the correct video editor and he works out from his with me and he he does ah good. A good job for I don’t know two months and what would be the next step. So if I get some new clients would you then ah do some other work and delegate it to another person or would you then consider a v a ah, what is your opinion on that.
11:51.28
Preston Lee
So you keep coming back to the v a question which is a valid question. Um, tell us what you don’t have to tell us necessarily all the different things a v a would do but what percentage of your work load right now would a V takeover.
12:05.90
NilsÂ
Um, so I was thinking that the planning parts or put it into the different programs I work with and uploading the content itself because sometimes with some functions you can plan planet. Um.
12:21.44
NilsÂ
Upfront so you have to do it if you want to have to post up at twelve o’clock you need to be online at twelve o’clock and this would be a a good earth thing to free up some time and maybe some some copywriting and canva canva designs.
12:26.94
Preston Lee
Yo.
12:37.10
Preston Lee
Okay, so how much how much time are you spending on that currently like what percentage is it 25% of your time 30% of your time.
12:49.25
NilsÂ
So I would say maybe 20% so ah the the conduct creation takes really most of the most of my time so canva um video editing and copywriting.
13:02.87
Preston Lee
Yeah, but but so you’re saying a V a would you would want a V a to help with Canva and copywriting as well. Okay, so for me that wouldn’t be a V a ah for me that would be a designer copywriter.
13:08.16
NilsÂ
Yes, okay.
13:19.80
Preston Lee
You know a social media marketer. Um someone someone like that a v a a v 8 to me a virtual assistant to me does more administrative tasks. So you know they send invoices. They follow up on invoices. They.
13:19.39
Clay
So tip right.
13:36.97
Preston Lee
Boy it’s been forever since I’ve even thought through a V a um because frankly I I don’t really hire them. Um, but they do they do? Yeah yeah yeah there you go.
13:42.42
Clay
Count and booking things on your calendar like booking flights. Just yeah.
13:49.48
NilsÂ
Okay, I’m not that fine. My ah company that I can to someone to book my flights.
13:54.50
Preston Lee
But booking client meetings rescheduling with clients. Um I mean I guess we we kind of have a v on our team mateo and he coordinates like calls on the podcast and and things like that. But but he also does a lot of other things and so I I would almost. I would almost get the right creative people on your team and then ask them to chip in other places like like get ah, get a good copywriter get a good ah Canva designer and and a video editor and have them actually execute on the work that pays the bills.
14:29.53
NilsÂ
Good. It’s ah that’s a good point because ah the Admos administratorist stuff doesn’t really take that much time and think that’s the key learning right now I’m taken from this conversation.
14:29.76
Preston Lee
You know.
14:35.77
Preston Lee
Um, yeah.
14:41.18
Preston Lee
Yeah, and it doesn’t pay the bills right? The administrative work doesn’t actually pay the bills it it frees up your time and then your work pays the bills but it’s not as direct.
14:52.81
NilsÂ
Um, okay.
14:56.45
Preston Lee
Yeah, what other questions can we help you with this is oh go ahead. Clay.
14:57.19
Clay
Be careful I was gonna say be careful about like doing this too quickly too. I’m only saying this because you said okay, what if I bring on a video editor then after a couple of months then I bring on someone else to do some other work I’m like. I think it’s quite fast in my opinion I’m not saying you you can’t do it or you can’t it can’t be done efficiently I’m just saying that. Um you know if you if like every couple of months if you’re trying to offload work and delegate like that’s that’s. Really fast. So I you know it’s going to one. It’s going to take you I think it’s going to take you a bit to find the right people but 2 you need to it’s going to take some time to figure out how to work well together. Um, and then 3 and then documenting those processes too. I mean that that takes time and so if you if you were just like bring on a video editor now a canva designer in a couple months a v a you know a couple months after that like that’s a lot. It doesn’t sound like a lot but that’s like.
16:08.87
Preston Lee
Has.
16:12.86
Clay
That’s fast. That’s fast.
16:16.58
NilsÂ
That’s a good point I tend to ah rush things ah quite often. So that’s a good point.
16:20.77
Clay
Yeah, when what ends up when and I know this again from hard from hard experience is how you end up rushing and you hire a bunch of people in a short period of time you realize that they’re all wrong for you and then you have to let them all go.
16:37.98
NilsÂ
Um I can I think so.
16:39.13
Clay
That’s not a fun day.
16:45.12
Preston Lee
Yeah, and and I think you’ll find um your job changes a lot as soon as you have even more than 1 person to manage even 1 person to manage right? You go from being a salesperson and a creative to being. Maybe a little bit of sales. Maybe some creative direction and management and coming up with processes and systems and helping people do their job. Ah as best they can and that’s a whole different skill set and so if you if you move into that too quickly and all of a sudden you’re managing 10 people. That’s a huge career change for you and a huge skillset adjustment for you to take on really quickly and if you can’t manage people well because you did it so quickly then people leave or they get frustrated. Um and you don’t want that either.
17:33.86
NilsÂ
Okay, it’s a then I can with the first person I’m working with and maybe I can learn the skills the delicicating ah chops and stuff and if I feel comfortable then I will after a couple of months like if I’m sure about delegating my cho. Maybe I can take a second person to work for me. Um, okay.
17:55.65
Preston Lee
yeah yeah I think you’ll you’ll know the right pace. Um because we also don’t want to hold you back? Um, Clay’s getting a little more risk averse in his old paternal age now that he’s got a kid he he wears the kid gloves a little bit more right clay.
18:11.54
Clay
Yep, absolutely.
18:12.52
Preston Lee
But but you know I’ve been that way for a long time So I can only tease him so much. But but I think yeah I think you’ll know the right pace for you and your business.
18:22.30
NilsÂ
Okay, sounds sounds great. Um ever another question which is in my mind ah like the the last days twenty four 7 because I have my my earliest clients.
18:26.75
Preston Lee
Um, yes, please.
18:37.96
NilsÂ
So if ah I have the same offer but with the first clients I get um if I just say the numbers at two hundred Euros um and for the same job. Um I was I was able to. To to make my offer a little bit better and now I get ah like three Thousand Euros for the same job and I don’t know if I if it’s if I want to just to terminate the work with ah my old clients or if I should have a talk with them to increase their. Um, to make my value my value more to increase my revenue with working with them because it’s not sustainable to ah, keep them and if I take 200 % more from other clients.
19:27.20
Preston Lee
Yeah, so is the question should you hold on to this other client or what’s what’s the question.
19:33.43
NilsÂ
Yes, said the question is if I should hold on to the client or if it’s um, is there some way I should approach them that I have to increase my price and what would they or should just ah, look for new clients who are willing to pay more. Um.
19:48.69
Preston Lee
Well I think clay you can tell me what you think but I I think always give them a chance if they’re willing to pay the higher rates. You know a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the Bush as they say and so you know you already have this one client.
19:49.80
NilsÂ
Yes.
19:55.99
Clay
And.
20:05.66
Preston Lee
Just have a conversation with them about your rates. Just let them know your business has grown you provide way more value than you did when you first signed up you have way more experience and value than and and ah you know if you’re getting them results. They won’t care about the price increase. Um.
20:18.85
Clay
How long they been a client.
20:20.94
NilsÂ
Okay, um, about five months um at the moment. Um, no I yes this month to month.
20:25.52
Clay
Do you have a contract with them month to month and and you’re selling literally the exact same service for almost 10 times more? okay.
20:42.36
NilsÂ
Um, ah yes, so.
20:42.89
Preston Lee
You know.
20:44.56
Clay
Do you have an up. Do you have an upgraded anything like a service.
20:49.61
NilsÂ
Um I always ah propose 3 like packets and ah most of the time they’re just it’s it’s set up like that I have to that. It’s only smart to choose the middle one. So if ah, ah, a small packet was with it and.
21:07.37
NilsÂ
Really really large picket but ah it set up that they just ah, it’s the smartest decision to do the middle one so any all day 1
21:08.10
Clay
Yeah.
21:14.93
Clay
Yeah, um, yeah, so what I would do is be I I know this is just me like there’s gonna be a lot of people there like talk to this client like go ahead and stop like like say hey you have to pay my hire fee or or we stop right now. Um I like the fact that that this this particular client like gave you a chance when you first started up right? So I think and you could do what you want this is just what I would do I would have ah same thing. What Preston would say has said. Have a very transparent conversation and just say hey this is what my fee is right now. Um, my costs are higher like I’m I’m much better. You know, whatever you can say whatever you want? Um, and I would say.
22:06.14
Clay
I’m going to like keep you at the current rate for the next like I don’t know three months whatever whatever time amount you choose and at that point I would love to continue on and just be sure to tell them why and I would say and just say I’ll keep you at the current rate for three months because you came on as an early client. Um, but you know I can’t continue with this. But for the next three months we can either. You know we’ll continue and you can either like we can talk about the the increased fee at that point or it gives you three months to find someone else if you want to pursue that option so that way they’re just that way. They’re just not like all of a sudden dead stop. They have nobody to do it.
22:45.39
NilsÂ
Um, all right.
22:52.50
NilsÂ
I Really like the the way you ah would approach it I think I will do it just like but it’s ah it’s not ah a just I don’t just terminate a contract and just leave them with nothinging. It’s a nice middle way and I think transparency is key.
23:06.90
Clay
Yeah, they’ll appreciate it to their business owners. You know it’s though they’ll understand.
23:07.56
Preston Lee
I agree Very very smart. Yep, very smart.
23:07.71
NilsÂ
And at this point.
23:16.23
Preston Lee
I Think clay you nail that one I mean for me that was that was perfect. That’s ah, that’s it falls under the bucket that we’re always talking about of communication right and consideration and it’s like like just communicate with them tell them what’s going on. Don’t try to be sneaky or or deceitful or anything and.
23:16.28
NilsÂ
Um, okay.
23:34.30
Preston Lee
And um, tell them what’s going on. They’ll understand they run a business and then give them some time I love that I love giving them the time to to either decide or to find someone else and and then they can weigh your value. Yeah yup yep, give them three months or whatever to decide six weeks whatever you decide.
23:37.33
Clay
The.
23:43.10
Clay
But put a deadline on it put a deadline on it though.
23:53.62
Preston Lee
And yeah I love that Nils. Ah I I think I mean if you only take away that from today I think I think this call has been good. What what else can we help you with.
24:06.29
NilsÂ
If you still have time I have ah another quick question. Um I’m starting to to think about building a personalel brand and I’m a big fan of KaruV and but it’s a lot of a bigger time commitment.
24:07.61
Preston Lee
Yes, please do we’ve got just a few minutes left.
24:12.31
Clay
Um.
24:23.65
NilsÂ
And I was wondering what is your opinion on the value of our personal brand on Instagram Linkedin or something like that.
24:32.83
Preston Lee
Yeah, Clay I I actually would love to hear clay what you think about this because you when you built your first agency you didn’t really build it around your your personal brand that much but and yet you were so and and I would say this is true of dripify too. You were still such a vital piece of that brand but it was never like it was never like Clay Moseley agency um yeah you have any ideas and.
24:51.20
Clay
Um, yeah yeah I think there’s a good balance. Um I think personal brain is 100% important. It’s as far as like how far do you take? It is the question. You know. Um, and a lot of people don’t know this but like Gary V he you know? Obviously he’s a big personal brand. Um, but his agency vaynerm media like 90 plus percent of the clients that they get. They don’t work directly with Gary V and so.
25:27.13
Preston Lee
Um, yeah.
25:29.53
Clay
Um, so here’s my take on it and this is just my experience is that put some focus into your personal brand but don’t go all in on it. Don’t don’t put a don’t put the majority of your resources into it. Um.
25:40.97
NilsÂ
Um, okay.
25:47.46
Clay
I would say I would say um, especially just because usually what I would say is do both but put 80% into one of them right? doesn’t matter which one just put 80% into one of them. Um, but in in. The context of this this podcast and and what you’re trying to do you’re trying to build ah an agency hire some people I would say put 80% towards your agency brand name and 20% towards your personal brand I think of examples like you are you familiar? Mr. Beast.
26:22.40
NilsÂ
Um, yes, yes.
26:23.41
Clay
I mean who isn’t right I mean he’s like the number 1 youtuber influencer Arthur um, the that dude has built up such a big big big personal brand. He can create whatever company he wants and he has instant clients.
26:25.16
Preston Lee
And of all time. Yeah.
26:27.26
NilsÂ
So.
26:42.90
Clay
Instant and so that’s that’s the power of a personal brand. Um, and I’m not saying you go that Route. He’s a rare and a not Anomaly I’m just trying to demonstrate the the power of a personal brand and how that can drive business. Um, but yeah, that’s what I would do I would ah. I would put 80% towards towards your agency and then 20% Personal brand.
27:09.42
NilsÂ
Okay I think that’s a ah ah that’s ah, a good good tip a mouth.
27:14.98
Preston Lee
Yeah I I think I think another option too. You could um you could make your personal brand a subset of your brand right? You think about like the Pat Flynns of the world or or even this example I gave earlier of clay you know.
27:23.63
Clay
M.
27:29.69
Preston Lee
Even even on a much much smaller scale like I run milo. That’s our brand I feel like I can step away from that brand anytime and the brand could continue as a resource for freelancers and yet you know I’m on the podcast and um and I’m in our Facebook group all the time interacting with people.
27:39.76
Clay
Um.
27:48.13
Preston Lee
And so there’s a little bit of person my personality in there. Um you you look at Pat Flynn he runs a similar business where you know a lot of the courses and things aren’t dependent on him that they sell but ah, but then he brings just like this. Personality to it and so I I think it could be a subset of your business instead of being its own separate thing I think that’s what I worry about is like if you’re trying to build this thing over here your business and then you’re trying to build your personal brand over here to me that that feels like you’re just spreading yourself too thin. I would figure out how your personal brand is a piece of your business and how it can help move your business forward and it all rolls up into your your larger business and.
28:30.86
Clay
You know you know I just thought of this um I think a really good um way to think about this is and I was thinking about this with my agencies is that people signed up because of me.
28:45.60
Clay
But they stayed because of my agency because of my team because of my team right? yeah.
28:45.43
Preston Lee
Oh I Love that? Yeah, that’s a great way to put it. It’s a great way to put it.
28:48.42
NilsÂ
Um, this.
28:54.12
NilsÂ
Yeah, like I like like the way you put it. It’s ah I think that’s said that if there um, well and what platform platform would you ah think is the best. Um, the best platform to promote ah a business for b two b ah probably ah, Linkedin. Ah, what is your opinion on on that.
29:13.64
Clay
I mean I’ve heard great things about Linkedin but I’ve never been I’m I’m like nonexist on Linkedin. Um I I’ve always been successful with Facebook and Instagram but to be quite honest I would I would just try. Try them all and see where you get traction.
29:32.96
NilsÂ
Okay, that’s a simple but defect.
29:35.53
Preston Lee
Yeah, or or yeah, ah you know the the marketing advice. The marketing advice I gave a few ah episodes ago was like you have to find the convergence of 3 things 1 which is most effective right? Where do you get the most sales from to what do you enjoy the most.
29:37.35
Clay
Email honestly.
29:53.13
Preston Lee
Because you’re going to be able to do more of it if you enjoy it or or just if you’re good at it like if you’re a better videographer then do something that leans toward video like Instagram if you’re more of a writer do something leans more toward writing like Twitter or x or whatever. Um, so those are the so what brings results? What’s enjoyable.
29:59.17
Clay
A.
30:13.40
Preston Lee
And why can’t I remember the third one all of a sudden I’ve shared this like 6 times since I brought it up. Ah what you’re good at maybe that feels like the same thing is enjoyable anyway, yeah yeah, go no no no no good
30:25.14
Clay
I’ll add to it I’ll add to it. Um, oh sorry, go ahead I don’t mean interrupt I was gonna say you Also you just seen you also need to recognize what’s short term and what’s long term because like.
30:33.69
Preston Lee
Yeah.
30:37.80
Clay
So Many people focus on long-term strategies that have delayed gratification and then they get burnt out and then they wonder why isn’t this working aka social media is long-term Seo is usually long term. Um, so you need to do a good mix of both where you’re doing short term. Like get you sales now while you are focusing on long term more sustainable strategies.
31:03.20
Preston Lee
Yeah I yeah I think it’ll just take some experimentation. We can’t say the best channel is because every channel’s different for every business you might see great results on Linkedin where maybe we haven’t ah you might see great results on.
31:10.64
Clay
Here.
31:19.53
Preston Lee
Threads or Tiktok or email marketing or putting up billboards in your city like we we just don’t know um, part of the challenge of being a social media agency is sometimes that people expect you to be good at all of it like for your own brands.
31:35.73
NilsÂ
That’s ah, it’s 100%
31:38.55
Preston Lee
Yeah, it’s a big challenge because like I’ll find ah you know I’ll have someone pitch their social media agency to me and I go and they have like 379 twitter followers and I’m sort of like I’d almost rather they not have a Twitter account at all than have an account. That’s that’s doesn’t have really any.
31:48.62
NilsÂ
Um.
31:51.20
NilsÂ
So.
31:52.58
Clay
Yeah.
31:55.60
Preston Lee
Activity or on on it or anything so that’s something to keep in mind too. All right, Neil’s well thank you so much for coming on the show any any last minute last like rapid fire questions anything that we’ve missed.
32:10.44
NilsÂ
Ah, now I think you already helped me a lot. It’s ah it’s so much input I wrote ah so many things down and um I need to need to sort my ah thoughts ah at the moment but it’s it’s.
32:21.57
Preston Lee
Great.
32:22.62
Clay
So.
32:25.40
NilsÂ
Really great input and I think I can can work with all of that is thank. Thank you so much to help me really really much.
32:30.94
Clay
Thanks for coming on.
32:32.40
Preston Lee
Um, well thank you so much for yeah, thanks for joining us on the show and um, yeah, we’d love to stay in touch here. How how your business does. Why don’t you really quickly let people know where they can connect with you if they’re interested in learning more about you or your business.
32:45.40
NilsÂ
Um, so have a website and called and Carnel I put D Um, this is so you can approach me for if you have some a business Inquiryes have social media. But um.
32:58.54
NilsÂ
I really like the point that just said and you would rather have someone with a no social media presence than a really small one because it puts a bad rev about your business as a social media marketer. So don’t know if I want to ah push my Instagram account right now but you can find. Find me on Linkedin on ah niils.qetc. So.
33:20.79
Preston Lee
Great and we’ll we’ll be sure to link to all of that in the show notes of this episode I’ve been Preston Lee with millow.co will also link to that of course and Clay Mostlyse from git tripify the newly registered trademark git drify.
33:33.49
Clay
The sissus.
33:36.63
Preston Lee
Or just tripify I should say but at drip gettripify.com ah Clay thank you so much for joining as well. We’ll talk to you guys later.
33:43.80
Clay
See ah.
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