Disrespectful Clients

00:00.00

Preston Lee

Hello and welcome back to another episode of freelance to founder. My name is Preston Lee with milo.co and joining me on the air today as almost always is my good friend Clay Mosley from gettrified.com hey Clay almost always.

 

00:14.26

Clay

How’s it going almost almost so I try I try to make it most. Ah you know sorry sorry I’m I might have some like.

 

00:18.71

Preston Lee

Oh I do I shouldn’t have changed that I say always.

 

00:26.88

Clay

Ah sorry I have like issues coming up with my my daughter and nanny yeah, that’s not an excuse but you know, ah ah, ah.

 

00:30.10

Preston Lee

Um, no, that’s that’s fine man that’s life like I yeah know it’s all good and um I didn’t mean anything by that. Although you have had rather exciting things happening lately. You moved offices.

 

00:45.38

Clay

Um I did yeah.

 

00:45.69

Preston Lee

Obviously Parenthood is always an Ever-ch changing game. So dude I feel you we’ve both canceled on each other plenty. So and and of course our guests are the most forgiving. Ah so yeah, we we appreciate We appreciate our guests who sometimes we both have to cancel because you know we’re dads and we’re running businesses and.

 

01:02.30

Clay

But.

 

01:03.70

Preston Lee

And this show is something we kind of mostly do for fun and to help people out. Um, but we love being here so anyway, speaking of wonderful guests. We have call who’s joining us from Germany originally from Ireland welcome to the show.

 

01:16.54

Cathal Meenagh

Um, hey thanks for having me.

 

01:20.40

Preston Lee

So excited to have you and mentioned that you’re a longtime listener to the show listening for a year or so and we just really really deeply appreciate that you and all the listeners out there taking time out of your day to listen to us.

 

01:30.62

Cathal Meenagh

Yeah, absolutely And and I want to thank you guys for it I’m I’m thanking you on behalf of all the listeners I know how crazy busy you guys are so yeah, taking the time out of your days to do This is much appreciated.

 

01:41.66

Preston Lee

Well we appreciate you being here too. Let’s dive into your business. A little bit tell us what you’re working on how long you’ve been in business for yourself if it’s a pull full time part time side hustle sort of thing. What’s the situation. Okay.

 

01:42.74

Clay

Yeah, we appreciate it.

 

01:55.21

Cathal Meenagh

Yeah, sure so I’m working um a side hustle right now I’m the founder of autopilot consultants. Um, we help software sales teams help use their crm better their customer relationship management software. Um, and the reason why I started this business is because I’ve worked for 2 software sales teams already. Um and I solved a lot of problems for them as far as using their crm better um sending emails from their Crm Automated a lot of the responses and automated a lot of the workflows that they have and it brought a lot of value to both teams and the relationship that a lot of sales guys have with their sales managers related to the crm is um, quite ah strained. Let’s say. Oftentimes the sales manager has to nag their sales team to make sure it’s always up to date and say and sales guys really hate getting nagged so that’s a relationship that could be better improved especially because um, this kind of software is is not cheap. So that’s kind of the thing that I do.

 

02:48.47

Preston Lee

Yeah, yeah.

 

02:59.20

Preston Lee

Yeah I love that we’ve talked I think it was just one of our most recent q and a episodes clayna and we talked about tools that can be used in your business of course CCrm is a a type of tool. But 1 thing.

 

03:09.56

Cathal Meenagh

Um, you.

 

03:09.70

Clay

Yeah.

 

03:14.38

Preston Lee

We talked about was that idea of like if you if the tool just gets in the way of the process then it’s not worth having right? It causes a bigger problem than it solves. But so many of these organizations that you work with have to have a crm to keep everyone on the same page and and just for reference why you give us like a 15 second version if anyone’s listening that doesn’t know what a crm is or what a crm does. Why does a company need a crm.

 

03:35.64

Cathal Meenagh

Yeah, sure so a cm is basically what replaced the rolodex right? I mean it’s ah it’s it’s a place to store all of your context all of their information. Um, all of the companies you’re talking to all of the people individuals. You’re talking to. Um, and also ah the the other main thing that it does is it. It tells you what to do next right? So it reminds you hey you send an email last week you should probably send a follow up email this week to to get back to that person and it kind of manages. All of that client facing stuff that a salesperson does. It’s it’s where a salesperson spends most of his or her time.

 

04:09.96

Preston Lee

I Love it. Perfect! Thank you? Yeah and and can be absolutely critical for businesses. But again if it’s not working and if it becomes like more of a a burden than a help. So I Love that you go in you work with the sales team. It sounds like you sort of foster that communication and help develop the right processes so that it can all happen more smoothly right.

 

04:27.95

Cathal Meenagh

Yeah, exactly I try to try to help as much as I can in whatever way I try to stay within the set within the actual crm itself. So essentially trying to templatize as much as possible and automate as much as possible in order to save the salesman time. Um.

 

04:46.51

Preston Lee

Um, yeah.

 

04:47.43

Cathal Meenagh

Because there’s so much of the time they have to fill out a date or have to fit out a phone number or have to manually type all this data in and ideally that can be automated as much as possible right? So I’ve been doing this then for 3 years um but mostly working for full time doing this on.

 

04:55.27

Preston Lee

Cool I love it and did you say how long you’ve been doing this three years awesome

 

05:06.64

Cathal Meenagh

So I work full time as a software as as an account executive for a software company. But I also do this on the side for those companies as like kind of a sales operations extra help you know? Yeah yeah I yeah.

 

05:18.41

Preston Lee

Ah, okay, okay.

 

05:18.47

Clay

So you you have a you have a bit of a sales mine right? So I I would I would ah I don’t know if you know this I think you may be aware of it. But you have like I’m assuming you’re good at what you do right? So um, you have like. The the the 2 ah skill sets or knowledge sets that a lot of people want like if they had 1 of them. It would be awesome which is sales but also the other side which is like kind of like operational logistics you know and it sounds like you combine those 2 which is like.

 

05:51.76

Preston Lee

Ah, yeah.

 

05:54.93

Clay

Amazing.

 

05:55.91

Cathal Meenagh

Well I mean that’s the dream right? I mean I don’t love that. But um, yeah I think um, that’s kind of why I wanted to to jump on the call is because that I’m still lacking in that logistical mind I’ve worked in sales for a while but as far as um, what I would love to discuss here is the. Um, the client slash service delivery side of things is just something I have much less experience in compared to sales.

 

06:21.90

Preston Lee

Okay, we can. Yeah let’s definitely dive into that so we’re we’re going to talk I think about a lot of different things. You said you have a lot of questions. Let’s segue now into really you know longtime listeners of the show know that we have this this freelancer to founder scale. It’s a scale 1 to 10 when you join the show if you come on. As call is doing today. We’d love to have you by the way visit freelance tofounder.com and you can just scroll to the bottom of the page fill out a quick questionnaire. We’ll have you on the show and talk about your business on the air. But um, essentially when you filled out this questionnaire you put that. A scale of 1 to 10 one being a freelancer 10 being a founder you put that you’re currently at a 2 but in a year or so you’d like to be more at a 7 and so I guess um as you sort of explain that to us 1 big question I’ve had so far jotted down here to ask is it’s been a side hustle for a minute for a few years. Ah. Is that is it something you want to take eventually full time or do that does the job and the site hustle work so synergistically well together that you don’t foresee it being a full-time business. So kind of answer that question and then paint for us a picture of what? Ah what? a perfect 7 looks like for your business a year from now.

 

07:31.11

Cathal Meenagh

Yeah I think 1 thing maybe I can make a little bit clearer is that um I was basically doing this job essentially helping with the crm for the companies I was working for so I’ve never taken it to a third party company before um I’ve never gone external.

 

07:45.38

Preston Lee

Um, yeah.

 

07:47.57

Cathal Meenagh

Um, until until recently um, until recently when I when I signed the first company but um, yeah, so that’s that’s kind of the first thing. Um, the reason why I put 2 in the beginning is um yeah I call myself a founder now I am the founder of autopilot consultants. But um and I and I say that because I don’t necessarily want to go ahead with the with the freelancer side of things to start with and I think I definitely would have if I hadn’t listened to this podcast for so long. Um I would have went for the freelancer route first but it seems like. The smartest way to do it is to productize and just go straight to the founder side. Um, so I’m starting with 2 and I think within a year realistically I would I would love to have another person. Um ah, contracted in in the business I think that would be.

 

08:27.28

Preston Lee

Um.

 

08:38.75

Cathal Meenagh

And I think once I have another person I would consider myself. Okay, this is a real business with and I’m that I’m the actual founder of if you know what I mean.

 

08:44.65

Preston Lee

Yeah, and and at that point do you foresee yourself doing it full time or is it still and and there’s nothing wrong with it being a side hustle I I did my sostle my my side hustle if I can talk today we had like 3 or 4 teammates and and it was making pretty decent money. You know before I ever actually took it full time.

 

09:08.19

Cathal Meenagh

Yeah I mean um, it’s it’s it’s something I haven’t fully considered when I would want to make the jump to be honest I don’t I Definitely yeah exactly I mean I I don’t I don’t foresee I’m I’m not I’m not really the kind of person to just.

 

09:15.20

Clay

So be careful with that careful.

 

09:25.66

Cathal Meenagh

Jump blindly I’m I’m very much like okay well I will scale up 1 and then scale off the other. Um, but yeah, so I think that consideration would be I’ll kind of pick a your a euro or dollar amount on a monthly basis that I can. Sustain and then I will be I’ll make that switch then.

 

09:43.63

Clay

So.

 

09:46.60

Preston Lee

Yeah, the the only advice I’d have for you having gone through that process and and learning about myself later that I was a lot more risk averse than I thought I was um, you know my wife and I have talked about this I’m not sure I ever would have made the leap if I hadn’t got laid off even though I had a very healthy strong growing business.

 

09:54.56

Cathal Meenagh

Um, and.

 

09:59.38

Clay

Saying.

 

10:04.20

Preston Lee

Um, so the advice I have for you is like just be careful because what? what? what could happen? What can happen is you continue to advance in your career and you get paid really well and your business starts to grow and you’re getting paid really well and suddenly you’re making 2 incomes right? and and so it becomes hard.

 

10:16.61

Clay

Yeah, that’s hard to leave.

 

10:21.22

Preston Lee

Yeah, it becomes hard to then say I’m going to make one income because I’m going to take my business full time and so just just watch out for that and you’ll figure it out but um, something to be aware of.

 

10:28.38

Cathal Meenagh

And and present. Do you think that if you stayed lot if you so if you made the jump earlier you would have did you would have made more or what? What do you think that would have looked like wow.

 

10:39.63

Preston Lee

Oh yeah, yes, 100% if you if you look at so you can look at a few different things right? and I wish I had these numbers in front of me because I would give you concrete numbers if I could but I don’t have them right now. Um, but if you look at like so my salary.

 

10:40.86

Clay

Um, yeah.

 

10:54.76

Preston Lee

And then you add on like at a full time job and then you add on my side hustle income right? It’s like a maybe a ninety ten split of our total income and then over time it eventually we got to a place where it was like maybe 5050 and the business was making as much as the full-time job and then the business at one point overtook the full-time job. Um. But but still even though the side business was growing at a pretty good clip. Um, the second we went full time with it. We had 1 year obviously where because of the you know, leaving the full time job behind entirely the total income for our house was less. But that there was 1 year of that and it wasn’t like we were hurting it all the other because the business was still doing well and then after that it just because I was able to put all of my time and effort and energy and expertise into my own thing. It just took off and so you know an extra and extra five ten fifteen percent in a salary every year you can blow that out of the water in your own business. You can double your revenue every year you know, depending on on what kind of business you’re in. So yes I think way more opportunity way more upside working for yourself.

 

11:54.10

Cathal Meenagh

Um, yeah.

 

12:00.18

Clay

And.

 

12:07.16

Preston Lee

And working for someone else Clay do you have anything to add to that.

 

12:09.53

Clay

Um, yeah, it’s just it’s way more Um I’m I’m at a so I’m here in Austin where it’s like a big tech hub. Um, and I have a lot of friends here that they they have no desire to start their own business. But what I see with them. Over and over and over again like so for example, my friend Michael ah, he’s a very smart very ambitious ah like tech sales. So it’s so it’s so funny ironic he’s in tech sales um over the last two years I think he’s. Been laid off 5 times. Not not fired but laid off because the company like yeah, like went through a merger like I think uber bottom out of some point bought the company at some point they didn’t need him or whatever I don’t know but my point is is that like being business for yourself.

 

12:48.25

Preston Lee

That that’s nuts. Yeah.

 

13:05.51

Clay

In my opinion is way more solid and secure is as risky as is people talk about it. You know, especially if you’re a salesperson like if you’re good at sales. It’s very secure in my opinion.

 

13:22.63

Cathal Meenagh

Yeah, exactly I mean there’s there’s um, no less like secure job in kind of a corporate environment than than a salesperson. Um, so yeah I don’t I don’t consider my my current position as particularly solid and I don’t think.

 

13:29.78

Clay

Boom.

 

13:38.75

Cathal Meenagh

Solidity or the the um predictability of my check would be something that would stop me from from making the jump in my opinion. It would just purely be as soon as the um, yeah soon as the monthly recurring revenue hits. Ah, point where I can match my current income I’ll make that switch. Um, yeah I think that’s something that that. Yeah.

 

13:59.26

Clay

I Hope So yeah I hope so I yeah.

 

14:03.58

Preston Lee

Yeah, if that’s something you want I yeah, we we really hope so let’s talk about how how we’re gonna get you there so year from now you’d hope to have at least 1 other person working with you. You told us a few things about what your business might look like um. What’s what’s holding you back. What questions can we answer today. Let’s really dive in and get to the meat of this episode.

 

14:20.58

Cathal Meenagh

Yeah, absolutely. So um I think the main the main bottleneck and just to give some some some background I’m currently working with my first external client at the moment. Um a firm here in ah in Hamburg I’m helping them with their salesforce instance. And um, already I’m starting to see where I have gaps in my knowledge as far as the service delivery side of things. So First question will be um, with with this kind of work as ah as a kind of agency slash consulting type of thing. Um. You know I’m I’m asking people within a business who aren’t hiring me their boss is hiring me to change um to change things about what they do on a daily basis and I’ve I’ve already felt some resistance. Do you have any idea and and tips on how to deal with with that kind of internal resistance.

 

15:16.21

Clay

Are you working with mostly corporate corporations.

 

15:21.38

Cathal Meenagh

Um, no, mostly smaller companies. Um sales teams no bigger than about 15 people so not not not too big.

 

15:27.32

Clay

How big So when you say smaller companies How many total people.

 

15:32.71

Cathal Meenagh

Let’s say maybe a hundred to a hundred and twenty people maybe software companies for the most part.

 

15:35.35

Clay

Okay, and what types of businesses.

 

15:43.85

Clay

Um, are they Ah, who’s the typical boss is it like are they older traditional.

 

15:48.81

Cathal Meenagh

Um, yeah, um, so it’ll depend. So um, ah, it’ll be sometimes it’s the founder. It’s It’s one of the founders that will that would be still leading sales at this point other times it’ll be so a sales manager. Um, that would that would come in and Realize. All I do all day is nag my employees about ah about a Crm Um, and they maybe there’s a better way to do it? Um, so that that can that can range from age and and and technical expertise.

 

16:08.65

Clay

Earth.

 

16:17.66

Clay

So you so you can so let I just want to clarify so you have sold the maybe the person on the sales team. But it’s their boss that makes a decision.

 

16:32.76

Cathal Meenagh

No I would go direct to the boss. Um, maybe I can give you I’ll give you a perfect example of of like where this has happened before um so I was working with 1 company and they had 2 sales teams for 2 different products. I was helping 1 sales team. Um and they were sent. They were sending all of their emails from the crm itself and they were using all the templates and it was going very well and they asked me. Do you mind working with the other sales team. Um to do something similar and as and as soon as I suggested that. Um, maybe we do a similar thing to the other sales team. They were adamantly against it and really didn’t want to change the way that um, the way that they currently work. So the whole idea of changing status quo despite seeing how much extra speed improvements and efficiency improvements could be there. They were very against that and I think it was the the team. So the team the boss said do what do? what Paul says but um, you know you need to get you need to get individual buy in as well, right.

 

17:23.22

Clay

The team or the boss.

 

17:28.82

Preston Lee

Yeah.

 

17:40.13

Clay

That’s a tough one whenever the team is not on board I don’t know like I almost want to just be like hey boss. Ah so like get your shit together and actually manage your to, um you know I ah.

 

17:46.75

Cathal Meenagh

Now.

 

17:56.33

Clay

I don’t know Preston you have anything on here because it’s it’s I think it’s like weird that that there’s 1 boss in charge of 2 teams and 1 of the teams is doing it and the other teams. Not it’s like it’s like an internal issue I don’t think that’s an issue with you.

 

18:09.00

Preston Lee

Yeah I think yeah it for sure there for sure is some like there’s an issue where the one team isn’t isn’t respecting the wishes of of their leader right? and and that’s a cultural thing they have to deal with probably but um.

 

18:18.20

Cathal Meenagh

Are more.

 

18:24.50

Preston Lee

But this makes me think having been and having been in a couple of corporate situations and and companies about this size give or take. Ah so I’ve been I’ve been in a couple different companies this size and I’ve watched this happen where an operations person will come in and and it’s like as a worker you’re like. You know if it if it if it ain’t broke. Don’t fix it and and so like don’t come in and try to set up this whole new process that then I have to learn and under the guise that it’s all going to be better because it’s not going to be Better. It’s going to be more work for me. It’s going to be a big pain for me to adjust all of my processes and relearn some software and whatever it might be right.

 

18:59.16

Cathal Meenagh

Are you.

 

19:01.15

Preston Lee

And so I think what might be missing here is um is the messaging of like here’s how this is going to help you right? So so call if you’re um, what’s the word aware of this pain point that. These team members have these salespeople have and the pain point that you’ve said so far is like they’re tired of getting nagged by their boss about putting information into the ah crm right? and so instead of going in and selling them On. You know your boss says we should do this so that everything runs more smoothly. They don’t care about that.

 

19:27.98

Cathal Meenagh

Um.

 

19:36.23

Preston Lee

Right? They they care about their day-to-day work. They care about not getting nagged by their boss about the crm and so if you go in and you say our goal here is to ah is to develop a process together that will help your boss Nag you less about the crm and you go in a sort of sympathetic and you say like.

 

19:40.96

Clay

Um, and that’s a good point.

 

19:51.43

Cathal Meenagh

Um, wow.

 

19:54.91

Preston Lee

You know, raise your hand if you hate getting nagged about filling out the crm and everyone raises their hand and you sort of have a chuckle about it right? and you say I’m here today to to get rid of that so that you no longer get nagged by your boss every day about updating the information in the Crm here’s how we’re going to accomplish that and then and Then. You’re solving their problem instead of creating more problems for them. I don’t know if that resonates if you if you think that approach would help What do you think that.

 

20:21.24

Cathal Meenagh

Yeah,, that’s that’s it that seems like a really good way to do it to kind of Confront. It head On. Um I think people generally don’t want to change what they’re doing This is the manager’s call that he realizes that they could be more Efficient. Um. So Yeah that I think that would really help just to say straight up. Hey um here I’m here for this reason and um I will help you solve this problem and here’s what it’s going to look like and give them plenty of warning that you know you may need to change some things that that we do but it’s all in. The name of getting you to be in order to be able to do your work easier.

 

21:01.14

Clay

Is it are you do are you able to like present in front of the team like as a whole or do you have to go to each individual person I think I take with like because I’m a salesperson and I think if you straight up just.

 

21:08.49

Cathal Meenagh

Yeah, no I can present in front of the team. No problem.

 

21:19.40

Clay

And you present to the team or whatever this whole idea of like hey I’m gonna change this but like how’s that gonna affect my my dollars right? like Ultimately, that’s what they really? That’s that is the only thing they care about if they can make more money they will. They will be won over.

 

21:27.17

Preston Lee

Yeah, that’s a good point too.

 

21:27.77

Cathal Meenagh

Um, we are.

 

21:33.20

Cathal Meenagh

Um.

 

21:37.71

Preston Lee

Yeah, that’s true.

 

21:38.47

Clay

That’s it. So that’s that’s how you have to translate that.

 

21:39.51

Cathal Meenagh

yeah ah yeah I couldn’t agree more this is this is the beauty of also being a salesperson myself. This is the number one way to ah to motivate guys like us. Um, it’s and I’ve done those calculations where. Essentially for the last 2 companies I’ve worked with I’ve saved them 67 minutes per day um of not new data entry or slash not making money work. Um, so that’s yeah, if you do the math out if that’s that’s giving them an extra three weeks a year or more. Um, yeah, and then.

 

22:00.80

Clay

Um, and.

 

22:03.81

Clay

Yeah, yeah.

 

22:12.70

Preston Lee

Yes.

 

22:14.23

Cathal Meenagh

Ideally done your extra sales every month if they if I give them an extra month a year. Do you think they would make more sales. Um, and that’s kind of the the pitch I’ve been using with the sales managers.

 

22:25.54

Clay

Yeah, no, that’s good I like that math because like if if you’re but getting them an extra three weeks ah a year and let’s just say a good sales personson I don’t know how much how much I make over there but let’s just say they make two hundred Thousand u s dollars

 

22:25.55

Preston Lee

Um, yeah.

 

22:40.24

Clay

You know on a weekly basis times 3 like that’s almost 12000 USDollars that they would pocket just by doing this not to men not to mention the cost. The ah you have to mention like.

 

22:47.84

Cathal Meenagh

Yeah, exactly.

 

22:58.26

Clay

How much time they’re saving which is which is like you have to equate that to to how much they make right? You can give an example just like this but but um, just as important maybe more important is now they have three weeks of opportunity right.

 

23:02.84

Preston Lee

Yeah.

 

23:13.52

Preston Lee

Yeah.

 

23:16.95

Clay

So it’s actually more than 12000 it’s it’s it’s I don’t know how much higher but it’s like way more? yeah.

 

23:19.44

Preston Lee

Whatever you can pull off in three weeks right I mean I I think I think you said something really critical here and that is you said and that’s how I sell the sales managers on this right and I actually think.

 

23:23.75

Cathal Meenagh

Um, yeah.

 

23:33.79

Preston Lee

In order to not get the pushback that you’re getting you actually need to sell this twice. You have to sell it first to the sales managers to to greenlight the actual execution of it. But then you have to go in and like sell it to the team not for them to necessarily greenlight it officially but in their minds to greenlight it right? And so. How cool how powerful would it be if you go in if you got good enough to where you go in you meet with all the sales peopleople in this big meeting and you say tell me how many sales you can make in an hour or or tell me how many hours it makes or it takes to make a sale like they a lot of the best salespeople will know those numbers right? So they’ll say like ah it takes me. Probably three total hours to make a sale or I don’t know whatever it is and then you go into here’s how I’m going to give you more hours in your year and and how much is each sale worth and you’re like doing this napkin math on the whiteboard a little bit. Um.

 

24:17.65

Clay

Um.

 

24:22.64

Cathal Meenagh

Um, now.

 

24:23.92

Preston Lee

And you’re saying so essentially I’m going to give each of you the opportunity to increase your salary this year by 15% just by the things we’re going to talk about today right? Okay now you’ve got their attention. And instead of it being this thing like oh the boss said we have to change all these processes. It’s like okay how quickly can we implement this because that extra 15 % sounds really good.

 

24:44.30

Clay

Oh.

 

24:44.98

Cathal Meenagh

Yeah, yeah, that’s that’s that’s super valuable to add that to the kickoff in the beginning. Um, definitely we’ll be adding that right away.

 

24:50.13

Preston Lee

Cool.

 

24:51.92

Clay

You know you know you you could even go. Um, so I do this in sales. What I’m about to talk about you can even go further than that go to deeper level. So this is where you’re going to have to get a little bit of information from the group. So let’s just say hypothetically you’re stating in front of the team. Of like 10 salespeople and you say hey we’re going to talk about this like yeah, an extra 15 % in sales but bla blah but like let’s talk about what that actually could mean to you and then that’s where you could ask some questions from a couple of people and be like hey what? like ah call what? What would an extra. 50 grand a year due for you and some people might say well you know like I might take that trip to Europe or or us or whatever for my entire family or I might pay off my house or whatever.

 

25:31.82

Cathal Meenagh

Um, yeah.

 

25:46.35

Clay

And it’s getting in the deeper levels of emotion of what money actually means to them because a lot of people love money. A lot of salespeople all salespeople love money but like what would they actually do with that money. That’s where you’re going to hit the emotion strings and that’s where how I. I Think you’re going to win them over.

 

26:04.68

Cathal Meenagh

Yeah, yeah, that’s that’s that’s super value. But I think I’ll definitely be implementing that really in-depth look and also remember I have access to our crm I can see exactly how much money they’re going to make know. Yeah, exactly yeah.

 

26:15.89

Preston Lee

I Yeah, that’s true. You could prep all that ahead of time right? Yeah, that’d be really powerful to just come in and say here’s what I’m seeing and and I still like the idea of.

 

26:17.99

Clay

I No there you go.

 

26:23.39

Cathal Meenagh

Um.

 

26:28.54

Preston Lee

Getting them sort of engaged and interacting and saying like here’s what I might do with extra and extra 15% a year and extra 50 grand or whatever. But yeah I’d love to hear how this goes actually I’d love for you to try this and let us know how it goes because I think it could really make it make a big difference. Great.

 

26:33.69

Cathal Meenagh

Yeah.

 

26:33.83

Clay

I have.

 

26:40.78

Cathal Meenagh

Yeah, yeah, I’m trying to record all these calls. So I’ll send it over once I do it for.

 

26:44.38

Clay

System.

 

26:47.29

Preston Lee

I Know you had a lot of questions today. So I think if you feel like we’ve talked enough about that one. Do you want to move on to the next thing.

 

26:52.74

Cathal Meenagh

Yeah, sure, um, the next one I wanted to ask about was kind of measuring my impact um, internally. Um, so again I was able to get the number of let’s say 67 minutes per um, ah yeah, 67 minutes saved per sales rep. Because I was working for that company for so long. So I saw the before I saw that during and all the after and I just measured the difference because I had all the time in the world because I was working there full time. Um, but what kind of um structures can I put in place other than a really long and boring survey at the beginning.

 

27:11.89

Preston Lee

Month.

 

27:28.77

Cathal Meenagh

Um, to to measure what the before is like so that I can get a really accurate after for testimonials and.

 

27:36.51

Preston Lee

Um, um, yeah I Love this is a great question to be asking like for the listeners tuning in is something to think about that when you get it before and after because those become your very powerful social proof your testimonials like even if you don’t get a testimonial they become powerful case studies right.

 

27:36.82

Clay

Make her.

 

27:53.38

Preston Lee

Put on your website and say when you hire me or when you hire our agency. This is what your company looks like before and this is what is going to happen after so I so I mean you you mentioned a minute ago you have access in a lot of cases to their crm and to their sales data to me. It seems like you’re actually in a really good place. Um.

 

27:53.55

Cathal Meenagh

Um, who’s.

 

28:06.52

Cathal Meenagh

You know.

 

28:12.57

Preston Lee

To just access that data on your own or at least to get some data if you don’t want to send out a big boring long survey to all the salespeople you might just send it to the sales manager right? and get his sort of before picture because some of it will be like how do you feel about these certain processes to it’ll be. It’ll be a very like emotional personal thing instead of.

 

28:23.76

Cathal Meenagh

Move.

 

28:31.72

Preston Lee

Um, just the numbers and the raw data. So I don’t know does it feel like you does it feel like with the access you have to things like what’s still missing. What are you still hoping that you could get that you don’t have.

 

28:41.51

Cathal Meenagh

Yeah, you see the tricky part is it will be it will vary so much across different departments and and across different salespeople on how long each individual is is putting that data into their crm or how long they’re spending on an email or. How long they’re spending on well maybe not spending on calls. But how long they’re sending the email after the like the the recap email after a demo for example, um, how long it takes for them to write that email will. That’s where almost all the time is lost as a salesperson is writing these boring emails that you. Um, that you send 2 or 3 times a week that could be that can be automated and templatized. Um, so it’s it’s measuring that time and that’s a really tough thing to measure and I was wondering if if yeah, if there’s anything we can do there.

 

29:35.73

Clay

I Think ah what? So what are you been doing right now. Just surveys.

 

29:40.31

Cathal Meenagh

Yeah, that’s the well I mean I haven’t got a chance to do this yet. But that’s in mind. That’s what I have in mind is on average how much how how long does it take for you to write an email and kind of just getting a general sense or getting a general sense ah of of.

 

29:41.67

Clay

In.

 

29:55.58

Cathal Meenagh

The amount of time that we can save like I can say for example that it takes them this long to write an email and just kind of guess but I would love like accuracy you know.

 

29:56.30

Clay

Yeah.

 

30:04.31

Clay

So what I would do I think this I I think what just a short answer I think you ought to interview salespeople like the ones that are actually like gung Ho about implementing the changes. Um.

 

30:12.99

Cathal Meenagh

Um.

 

30:20.00

Clay

You don’t have to do all of them. All of them are not going to do it and I would also cherry pick who who you interview but interview before an interview after just like a short interview like you know, however long it needs to be for you to get the answers but like here’s why this is important. Um one is. If you sent out a survey most 90% of people are not going to answer it. You know, um number 2 the ones that do are quickly answering it like they’re just giving you half as answers and you don’t like in my opinion you don’t actually know if it’s like true. They’re just like.

 

30:40.75

Cathal Meenagh

Now.

 

30:47.72

Cathal Meenagh

You know.

 

30:56.76

Clay

Checking the box off that they finished it. Um and that could be for whatever reason obligation or whatever and they like you. Um, so like who knows um, but number 3 when you actually interview somebody and. Let’s just say it’s like if you can if you can record it. It’s better like get their permission to do This is you can get much much deeper in the conversation like I think it’s more than just about how much time they’ve saved on writing an email I think it’s more about Not only.

 

31:27.30

Cathal Meenagh

Um, yeah.

 

31:32.70

Clay

Times save on email. But how much money they think that has made how much what that money has done for them or could do for them. Um, and then and and there’s no way to like really get those answers unless you are interviewing them because you can. So. For example, you can so you could ask in a survey hey how much time have you saved from not having to write this email. The answer is going to be like I don’t know 2 minutes or whatever but in an interview if you’re actually talking them having a conversation you can ask that question and then you can do follow up questions.

 

32:02.66

Cathal Meenagh

Um, who.

 

32:09.84

Clay

That go on much deeper levels and you say oh okay, well tell me like how many so 2 minutes of email. How many emails do you write? Okay, how many um, how many emails do you write per week. Okay, how much time is that okay, we can do the math now out of this time. Um.

 

32:10.30

Cathal Meenagh

Um, now.

 

32:25.52

Clay

What do you think you’ll be able to do with this extra time. Are you going to sell some more or youre going to take time off right? because some people will want one or the other this is important for you to know for you to sell this thing because if salespeople like there’s a lot of sales people sales people that want more money but there’s a lot that.

 

32:33.21

Cathal Meenagh

Um.

 

32:42.87

Clay

They’re like hey if I can just take more time off but also make the same amount of money I’m making right now I’ll do that. Um, and then here’s what’s really cool. This is the best part of doing this in my opinion I mean not only do you get the testimonials from this but you get to know.

 

32:50.10

Cathal Meenagh

Um, yeah.

 

33:02.13

Clay

The exact wording and phrasing that they use to answer your questions and this is important because when you do a sales pitch when you are presenting to the sales team to try to like win them over when you’re doing your marketing.

 

33:08.99

Cathal Meenagh

Um, yeah.

 

33:20.18

Clay

To try to get new clients. You know the exact wording and phrasing that that that’s in their head and when you can tap into their head things are just so much easier. You sell more you mark it easier like it’s just easier. That’s the way I would do it.

 

33:30.76

Cathal Meenagh

Um, yeah, it’s like it. It’s like even more in-depth qualification and right it’s ah trying to figure out if if yeah if if you can analyze not only.

 

33:37.81

Clay

Have.

 

33:46.56

Cathal Meenagh

Which salesperson is going to make more money because of the work that I do It’s also like you know you can tell by each individual person. Um, and I think as well because I think having this ah roi number is great for testimonial. Great for case study. And also great to so upsell into a um into a retainer obviously um and then even I mean the dream scenario is even if I have to build some sort of software myself in order to do this but in order to be able to measure something that I can even guarantee a certain number of minutes. Um, saved per day or something that would be even the dream. But that’s super valuable clay I appreciate that I will oh definitely kind of go war 1 on one and maybe I need to pick in the crm world. We call them super users we have like people who are super. Ah.

 

34:20.42

Clay

And.

 

34:36.62

Clay

Yep.

 

34:37.40

Cathal Meenagh

Passionate about the crm um or passionate about the software that they have and maybe those people are more willing to give me maybe 15 minutes to talk to them. Okay, perfect. Yeah, um, thanks again for that guys appreciate it I think maybe we can just jump to the the next question then is it’s right right.

 

34:42.22

Clay

Yeah, it’s yeah, that’s who I would go for.

 

34:54.15

Preston Lee

Let’s do it. Yeah I Love it.

 

34:56.44

Cathal Meenagh

Um, so one part of my um personality and kind of work life is I’ve never been that good of a trainer. Um I’ve always been the kind of salesperson that does just gets the the quota and gets the the. Kind of the work put on my desk and then I just go ahead and do it. Um, but 1 part of this work and implementing the kind of work that I do will be to train people on how to use the new improvements. Um. In my mind I’m just thinking maybe I could just create a manual or just do some sort of loom video is that enough or is 1 on one better and maybe is there any kind of tips you guys have for you know, getting better at training people.

 

35:49.23

Preston Lee

This is a tough one because it’s It’s very niche to your particular service that you’re providing right? Um I’m trying to think I have had any experience with this I’ve obviously like trained people as as their boss. Um, but you’re talking like.

 

35:53.42

Cathal Meenagh

Me.

 

35:53.94

Clay

Um.

 

36:02.80

Clay

Um, well, what’s a learning curve.

 

36:06.98

Preston Lee

Yeah, that’s a good question.

 

36:07.21

Cathal Meenagh

The learning curve for I mean generally these people have already been using this this tool for a long time I mean it’s what they spend. Let’s say 80% of their day and so this shouldn’t be too big of a learning. Yeah, there shouldn’t be too big of a learning curve unless how it did something crazy unless there was some sort of major change.

 

36:16.50

Preston Lee

So they’re very familiar with it.

 

36:24.73

Cathal Meenagh

Like I invented a brand new one then there would be need need for serious training. Um, but let’s say for example. Ah what one of the most standard ways to save time. Um, and this is something that I’m building right now is um.

 

36:25.20

Clay

Um.

 

36:39.43

Cathal Meenagh

Having every email that you send more than twice a week templatized so that it can go out super quickly. Um, and that saves a lot of time so teaching people how to use these templates and teaching people the benefits of using them rather than writing it yourself. Um, but again, it’s like.

 

36:55.51

Clay

Um.

 

36:55.62

Preston Lee

Um.

 

36:58.46

Cathal Meenagh

Let’s say looking forward a year from now when I talked about hiring that one person I’m 95% sure that person will be a trainer or some sort of person who has has more patience and has that kind of teaching mind and has that kind of like the heart of a teacher kind of thing. Um.

 

37:11.12

Clay

A.

 

37:11.39

Preston Lee

Well I think that’s I think that’s a good way to think about it right is is higher. They say higher for your weaknesses. So higher places that you feel like you Maybe you aren’t as capable or as or even that you don’t enjoy as much or you don’t want to try to get better at it’s like that’s a good way to look at it having been. In a corporate setting before again and having been trained I think in these 2 different ways where one was like um, there’s some resources you can go review Versus. There’s a person that comes in and trains me and and it sounds like maybe just based on the kind of people you say you’re interacting with. I Wonder if it would be better to have documentation. Um and and have you there as a resource when they have questions So it’s It’s kind of like um, not necessarily like I have I had someone come in. We switched ah email marketing software at a corporate job I was at and they came in and did this like.

 

37:50.95

Cathal Meenagh

Um, yeah.

 

38:04.37

Preston Lee

5 hourur long presentation and showed us all the features of the new email tool and it was just like oh it was awful. It was terrible and they had everyone in the company who was ever going to touch email come to the meeting and we were. It was such a waste of time because you forgot 90% of the stuff that they presented face-to-face right.

 

38:08.61

Clay

Woo that sounds like a snooze fest.

 

38:10.58

Cathal Meenagh

Um, yeah.

 

38:22.87

Preston Lee

Because you didn’t know what you were going to run up against when you actually got into a project and needed to send an email and so if there were if there had been documentation something I could reference I would have preferred they did a half hour introduction to it maybe and then given me a bunch of documentation that I could then search myself and say.

 

38:39.76

Clay

Um, yeah.

 

38:41.28

Preston Lee

Okay, how do how do I do that piece again and then also like oh and here’s our email address or our phone number if you get totally stuck I’d be happy to walk you through it over the phone or whatever I think but my guess is type a personality people salespeople. They’re going to want to figure it out on their own. They’re not going to want to sit through like a giant tutorial or have you walk them through it. They’re going to want a resource that they can work at their own speed if people are ahead of the curve. They can just fill in a couple small gaps if they’re way behind the curve.

 

39:03.39

Clay

Who.

 

39:09.98

Preston Lee

They can lean on you a little bit more but they still have the resource and that’s kind of my initial gut reaction to that? yeah.

 

39:15.25

Cathal Meenagh

No yeah, that’s good to know. Um, yeah I Think in my mind a a because I’m making kind of minor improvements. Um, but minor rather than it’s not like it’s going to change their whole workday and it’s not gonna It’s not like a brand new tool or anything. Um. Ah, loom video with some written documentation is usually seems like everyone’s pretty happy with um because it’s just ah, a step by step click by Click and they can follow it or they can watch it like what I would do is watch it at 3 times speed just to see where where I’m missing the Click. Um.

 

39:45.47

Clay

Um, be yeah.

 

39:46.39

Preston Lee

Yeah, yeah.

 

39:52.21

Cathal Meenagh

Ah, yeah, so that’s that’s okay, that’s good to know. Um.

 

39:52.75

Preston Lee

Yeah I would I would start small I would start small and simple and add as people have questions as opposed to trying to be all comprehensive and and and then trying to scale it back later like you might as well put in less work now and add things as people need them.

 

39:54.75

Clay

Um, I’d probably yeah.

 

40:09.32

Cathal Meenagh

No I think that the best I seen if I I want to give my my customers the best possible um experience and the best but I mean it goes kind of without saying that the best possible experience is me standing over your shoulder and answering every question right Away. Um, but again, that’s not necessarily scalable and that’s what I think an external person could do is be be that kind of customer support slash customer success type person that ah that can that can be that um that teacher but something for a later stage.

 

40:41.17

Clay

Um I would almost do it hybrid of 3 different things if this is just me because you you do have to play a balance of of ah service. Um. But also not being in a 5 hour presentation so like based off what you’ve told told us what I would play with um some variation of this is that you you know you implement the whole system I would do a really really short.

 

40:58.88

Cathal Meenagh

Um, no.

 

41:12.71

Clay

Presentation to the group and show them like 1 or 2 big things that’s going to be the most impactful to them and then I would say hey guys I also have this library of tutorials like loom videos on like low hanging fruit stuff.

 

41:30.83

Cathal Meenagh

Um.

 

41:30.90

Clay

You can go reference it as you needed and then in addition to that you get me for the next X number of days as needed if you run into any issues. That’s that’s kind of what I would do? yeah.

 

41:39.69

Cathal Meenagh

Yeah, yeah, that would be exactly that would be my idea where you where I would I would have they would be. They’d be able to access me for for two weeks or or a month or so to you know to to solve any problems in the beginning.

 

41:54.26

Clay

1

 

41:55.81

Cathal Meenagh

And also have a library there. That’s that’s good to know.

 

41:59.23

Preston Lee

I Love it. These are great questions. Do you have any more.

 

42:04.28

Cathal Meenagh

Um, so maybe to change gears a little bit. 1 thing that I’ve been kind of bouncing off the wall over and over again and I can’t quite figure out a sales way to answer this um and and a good way to make it a business case for it is. Most of the companies I work with spend about nine k a year on their crm. But realistically I if I was to save a company. Ah let’s say three weeks a year and they close 50 k a month.

 

42:25.14

Preston Lee

And.

 

42:38.44

Cathal Meenagh

So that would be significant to amount of revenue that I would be able to save them. But if they say I mean are you really going to charge us this like more than what we already pay for the Crm loan. Um, how can I how can I balance that that there. Paying for a tool that’s relatively cheap but they’re paying for only expense service on top.

 

42:58.80

Preston Lee

Have you had that have you had someone say that Okay, that’s okay I mean it’s it’s it’s ah it’s good to foresee those kinds of things but it’s also there’s a risk of like inventing objections in our minds.

 

43:01.20

Cathal Meenagh

Um, ah no, not yet I haven’t.

 

43:12.55

Cathal Meenagh

You know.

 

43:13.68

Clay

Yep.

 

43:14.67

Preston Lee

That people are never going to have I would say if you do think that’s a genuine concern and not just maybe just ah, an imposter syndrome thing or or a worry that you’re making up in your mind I would say um, you always sell on value right? And so the value like you said the value that you’re bringing is.

 

43:22.57

Cathal Meenagh

Are.

 

43:32.82

Preston Lee

You know, maybe another if they do 50 k a month and you get them three weeks whatever three quarters of fifty k is is is the real value that you’re bringing right? and so if you charge half of that if you charge a quarter of that they’re still roi positive and these sales guys are going to be really smart on ah roi and they’re going to say like okay.

 

43:48.47

Cathal Meenagh

Are you.

 

43:52.90

Preston Lee

If I invest this much we’re going to get this much back out of it and it’ll be worth it. So You always have to sell on on that value and I love that you’re thinking. So Ah so much about the numbers because I think that’s going to be really the key to this is saying like well you know. My clients traditionally save this much time which equates to this much money which equates to you know this higher percentage of whatever etc, etc and then and then it’s so easy to then say and for this thing that’s going to get you $40000 I charge 10.

 

44:17.31

Cathal Meenagh

Um, now.

 

44:23.31

Clay

Oh.

 

44:25.76

Cathal Meenagh

Yeah, yeah, exactly I want to make that I really want to make that kind of Grand Slam no brainer offer that it just is it sells itself right? um to be able to say I’m giving you all this value for this price. Um.

 

44:26.90

Preston Lee

And it’s a price anchoring thing right.

 

44:42.16

Cathal Meenagh

And I think on that as Well. Um, generally what people have come to me and asked me to do is hey I have X problem Um, can you fix that problem for me, Let’s say for example, hey we would. We’ve just got our ourselves a new accounting Software. We Want to have all of our. Deals from our crm go into the accounting software and start billing people. Um I say sure that’s no problem I can build that. Um, yeah, that’s that’s no problem at all. How do I convert those type of that type of work into a more sustainable and. Into into retainer type clients.

 

45:26.67

Clay

Um, alright, so ask the question again in 10 seconds

 

45:33.60

Preston Lee

Ah, Clay got distracted.

 

45:33.80

Cathal Meenagh

Um, okay, well then sure in 10 seconds if a client comes to me with a very specific problem. How do I convert them into how do I fix that problem for them. And then convert them into monthly paying clients.

 

45:48.15

Preston Lee

Oh my gosh that was almost exactly 10 seconds that was really good I timed it.

 

45:50.30

Clay

I think I think you ah I was very specific with my 10 second question. Ah I I think ah in my opinion you you I don’t think you sell them unless there is a recurring problem.

 

45:53.43

Cathal Meenagh

Um.

 

46:07.90

Clay

So if there is a if they come to you for a very specific problem but it’s a singular problem that once it’s fixed fix. It’s fixed. You just fix that problem. Um, now where you can how you can identify. Ah.

 

46:07.56

Preston Lee

Yep.

 

46:25.80

Clay

A potential retainer client is by asking questions. So once you obtain them as a client for a 1 ne-time project start asking a lot of questions about their operations or you know, whatever it is related to what you do right. And then based off those questions you’re going to be able to identify whether or not they need something on a recurring basis. They may not know this they may not be seeking someone for a retainer until you ask the right questions and then they realize that oh.

 

46:52.89

Cathal Meenagh

Um.

 

47:03.76

Clay

Yeah, we should probably have this handled monthly I think this is the biggest mistake that people make in sales is that they start selling some shit that they that they don’t even know if the client freaking needs. You know you got to ask the questions you got to ask questions first.

 

47:04.79

Cathal Meenagh

Rise.

 

47:16.15

Cathal Meenagh

Um, yeah.

 

47:21.89

Clay

And then uncover some pain points and if though if one of those pain points happens to be something on a monthly recurring basis then boom you say hey guess what you have this monthly pain point we can solve it for X dollars So that.

 

47:39.98

Cathal Meenagh

Um.

 

47:40.51

Clay

To me. That’s how you do that.

 

47:41.79

Preston Lee

Yeah I think I think you’ll start to identify. What’s an ongoing problem. What’s a 1 ne-time problem like like an ongoing problem would be. We’re constantly getting new sales associates and um, they don’t know how to use the crm in this new way that you’ve taught us and so can you come in every quarter.

 

47:53.18

Clay

Moon moving.

 

47:59.55

Preston Lee

And train all of our new sales associates or can we just call you when a new sales associate is in and and to keep you on retainer for that. We’ll pay you whatever X a month you know, um, or or you know what do we do after our month is up and we still have questions about how this works. Oh well for a small fee. You can.

 

48:07.48

Cathal Meenagh

Um, who.

 

48:16.82

Preston Lee

You can have access to me and my team and we will. It’s basically like paying for customer support. Um, you know you talk about Clay’s business where he built websites and then he offered unlimited content changes right? And that’s essentially what you charged for clay. Why why you sort of justified an ongoing monthly payment.

 

48:29.30

Clay

A e.

 

48:36.75

Preston Lee

Um, and in reality people didn’t use that all that much but they paid for the ability to use it in the moment when they needed it right? Yeah so I think it’s similar here.

 

48:43.11

Clay

The peace of mind.

 

48:47.37

Cathal Meenagh

Yeah, yeah, exactly I’ve I’ve heard that the model before the design joy slash ah Clay model. Um, yeah yeah I think that that is of course the dream um to be able to have that unlimited crm request unlimited stuff. Um, and yeah I would love to to get to get to that point. Um I think I want to solve more problems first and then get to there. Um, that would be.

 

49:11.65

Preston Lee

Yup, yeah, and I think like Clay said it’ll make itself known right? as you have more conversations you go? Oh everyone keeps asking me about this thing that seems to be an ongoing problem. Um, you know how much could I bill for to solve that problem for them on a monthly or quarterly basis.

 

49:26.39

Cathal Meenagh

Yeah, yeah, exactly yeah.

 

49:29.56

Preston Lee

Yeah, call we are running out of time here. Do you have any rapid fire questions you want to do before we wrap up or do you think we’re there. Oh my goodness. Well thank you so much for joining us on the show today. It’s been a blast for us. We’ve had some definitely some different questions than what we’re used to. So we really appreciate you taking the time.

 

49:35.63

Cathal Meenagh

No, you’ve already given me enough. Thank you very much.

 

49:38.87

Clay

Nice.

 

49:48.32

Preston Lee

To not only come on the show but also come prepared man. Thank you so much.

 

49:50.40

Cathal Meenagh

I Appreciategainst Thanks. Thanks again for it for putting this on and and allowing me to to join.

 

49:54.95

Preston Lee

Absolutely Why don’t you really quickly tell listeners where they can connect with you if they want to learn more about your business or what you’re working on.

 

50:01.70

Cathal Meenagh

Yeah, sure you can just go to Autopilots Consultants Dot Com or autopit consultants on Linkedin and you can book a call with us if you if you say in in the description box that you came from this when you came from this podcast if you’ve listened all the way this far into the podcast then. And I’m sure we’ll be able to do some sort of price help I’m I’m happy to help this community in whatever way I can. So yeah, that’s where you can find me.

 

50:23.58

Clay

Cool cool.

 

50:25.45

Preston Lee

Awesome I love it. Thank you so much I have been Preston with millow.co Clay Mosley from gett dripify.com thank you so much for me here. You guys really appreciate it I’m waiting for Clay Seeia where is it there there we go bye.

 

50:38.63

Clay

See ah.